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Old 10-08-2010, 04:05 AM    (permalink
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Don't want any part in Branch or Jackson. Jackson is a bad apple and Branch is washed up and doesn't bring anything we don't already have to the offense. If we were to get him for sticks of gum, sure, I'll take him, but anything of value is a huge no for me.
This is how I feel. Jackson is one strike away from getting a one year suspension and wants $10 mill. per year. If you're not going to pay Moss $9 mill, why pay this d-bag? I've been a fan of Jackson even before he had his breakthrough, but I don't want to have him on the Patriots. Branch, however, I'd love to have. I think a conditional 6th rounder would be a fair price considering what we got for Moss. Even though he's not the old Branch he would keep Brady happy and be able to contribute a bit as well. We also need another vet to bring the younger guys along imo...
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:30 AM    (permalink
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It is a move that I thought would not happen for a number of reasons, but I am curious to see if we actually did contact the Chargers about Jackson. He seems to possess all of the qualities that our organization sees as turnoffs.
I have a hard time even believing the rumors about Jackson. Great talent, great idiot. No thanks. There's no way in hell we'd give up picks to the Chargers, especially if reports are true that douchenozzle AJ wants a 2nd & 3rd from an NFC team and a 1st & 2nd from an AFC team.

Branch . . . w/e. I'm with EE, if it costs nothing it's cool. He'd be decent depth.
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Old 10-08-2010, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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I don't see the point in Branch with Edelman and Welker... Let a team that would benefit from him (Chiefs) get him. There aren't any teams that are already out of it who have WRs they're willing to trade. So the Pats are pretty much where they're at with what they've got.
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Old 10-08-2010, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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We're a one dimensional passing team once again :( We better hope Tate is the real deal, but to me he doesn't look like he's ever going to be a true deep threat.
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Old 10-08-2010, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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What's one dimensional about it? I see the offense becoming a better compliment to the defense now. Even more emphasis put on possessing the ball and forcing the other team's offense to do what the Patriots want them to do.
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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We have a collection of slot receivers, that's what makes it one dimensional. No one can beat the safety over the top. I'm not going to get into the entire Moss thing again, but I will say we don't have the personal to replace him. We're much easier to defend now.
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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The TEs can and so can Tate. Also, this isn't like last year where there were two options at receiver. The passing game is more dynamic, and the Brady has options on third downs.

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Old 10-08-2010, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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Spreading the ball is well and good. I'm all for that, always have been, but we don't have a guy who can run up the seam and get a big play.
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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I think the Moss trade means the Coaches believe we do have that deep threat & seam threat on the roster. Tate on the outside and Hernadez up the seam. Many of the talking heads are asking "Why now?" To me, the answer is simple: because the organization has had enough time to evaluate the health of Welker & ability of Tate / Gronk / Hernandez.

I see Tate as a better player than Branch / Bethel Johnson ever where already and they were our only deep threats back in the day. That plus a very dangerous TE puts us in position to keep the deep threat alive.

We'll find out if I (and the FO) are correct in this soon enough.
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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I just don't see it. Hernadez makes his plays after the catch just like all the other receivers on our roster. In soft zone coverage, he's good at finding the hole and he's probably the single best tight end after the catch in the NFL already at this point, but he doesn't have the longspeed to be an up the seam guy.

Tate is a point of contention, but still, I haven't seen it yet. Early on, it seems like he has a hard time tracking the ball. When he first started getting into games last year, Brady started bombing to him, probably to see what he had, and he looked awkward when the ball was deep in the air. Just don't think he's a natural guy on the deep ball. Hope he turns into that type of guy eventually, but I'm not expecting it.
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sold on it either but I think there's a bit of a double standard / contradiction in our discussion about Moss. On one hand we, as Pats fan, are quick to say "Brady has done more with less" but then talk about how no Moss means we won't have any of the underneath stuff open.

We have won, and won big, w/small ball principles. Even if we don't have that seam / fade threat, why can we not do so again?
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Don't get me wrong, I think we can do it, but I think it makes us a hell of a lot more predictable. In todays NFL, it's damn near impossible to defend receivers in the Wes Welker mold effectively, but still, the best offenses always have a guy who might not be the best receiver on the team, but who can stretch the field to keep the defense honest. I'm not talking about a guy who needs to be doubled constantly like Moss, but at least someone who can get up field and do damage. I'm not confident we have that. Combine that with our suspect defense, which some people seem to think magically got better with us trading Randy Moss, and you have some problems.

This team is built to outscore people, and I'm not confident we can do that. I totally get the ball control thing. We've been doing that the past few weeks and it's been working and making our defense look better, but we're going to be exposed against teams like Baltimore and the Colts and we're not going to be able to go score for score against teams. I don't think I can remember of a trade like this so late into the season that changed a teams identity as dramatically as this one did.
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Oh, and in unrelated hilarity, ESPN has Danny Woodhead listed as our starting fullback on their depth chart.
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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I hear you. I think to some extend the team's identity was in transition and it took a few weeks to catch up to Moss. The big sets utilizing the TEs were looking boss and I think that made Moss expendable, to an extend, of course.

I think there's a greater chance we look better because of this move than there is chance we look worse. My opinion there would be different if I thought Moss would give us his all (like he claimed he would) but I just didn't see that as a realistic hope.
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Old 10-08-2010, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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He wasn't giving his all, that was obvious. It sucks because I love the guy as a player and I see where he is coming from on all the contract stuff, but just blah.

I just wish we had done this in the offseason. All of my BB rage has pretty much left me because knowing what we know about him, I guarantee he considers this entire thing to be a massive, massive failure. If we had time to vary up the personal in the offseason and get a receiver who isn't just a good compliment to Moss, it would been a lot easier to swallow. It's never a good thing to basically have to change your playbook mid-season.
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Old 10-08-2010, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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It's never a good thing to basically have to change your playbook mid-season.
This is the part I'm really trying to get at. The offense looks to have evolved away from the style that had Brady and Moss shattering records. That O left with Josh and the one we're seeing this season looks to me like it had moved away from the deep route dependency we had because of Randy. Not a bad dependency, either. Just one tailored to him, which was fun to watch.

I don't think we're looking at changing the playbook at all. I think what we saw vs. the Jets was indicative of Randy wanting touches, Brady wanting to get him those touches, and neither of those things being the main priority of the scheme. (Revis on Randy certainly had something to do with that, too.)
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Old 10-08-2010, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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It sucks because I love the guy as a player and I see where he is coming from on all the contract stuff, but just blah.
Totally understandable. I always liked Moss for being flat out honest about life as a football player. You can always count on him to say football is a paycheck, it's about the money, and it needs him more than he needs it. It is odd to have such a high level of respect for a guy who has the propensity to be such a pain in the ass, and to do some really, really stupid ****.

Once he started his own race team on the Nascar Truck series my mancrush moved to epic proportions, even though I don't even follow racing. If I could, I'd fund my own truck team b/c it's always been a weird favorite of mine. Racing pickups . . . awesomeness.

BTW, how long do you figure before the image changes to a non-descript Vikes uni on his team site? Link! lol
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Old 10-08-2010, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Don't get me wrong, I think we can do it, but I think it makes us a hell of a lot more predictable. In todays NFL, it's damn near impossible to defend receivers in the Wes Welker mold effectively, but still, the best offenses always have a guy who might not be the best receiver on the team, but who can stretch the field to keep the defense honest. I'm not talking about a guy who needs to be doubled constantly like Moss, but at least someone who can get up field and do damage. I'm not confident we have that. Combine that with our suspect defense, which some people seem to think magically got better with us trading Randy Moss, and you have some problems.
I think I'm the minority but the move makes the Pats offense less predictable. Moss would generally only run the long routes. When he lined up on the field everyone knew it was most likely he was going down the field. By having another receiver out there who will run the intermediate routes with the slot guys running the short routes, while they take their shots deep a few times a game will make them less predicatable. For the last 3 years we sort of knew the type of routes being run by the WRs and who was running the routes; this is pretty much the definition of predictable. Hopefully this will make the Pats become a little more creative and generous when spreading the ball around from now on.

I agree with you that this move doesn't make the Pats better offensively though. Moss was still able to beat the double teams last year and the offense was a danger to score everytime Moss was on the field. It's wierd not feeling the air of confidence that the Pats can and will score every time they touch the ball, at least that's how I felt over the last few years.
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Old 10-08-2010, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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I'd be more excited about throwing some money at A.J. Green or Julio Jones as opposed to Vincent Jackson. Branch is terrible at this point, forgetaboutit.
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Old 10-08-2010, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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I'd be more excited about throwing some money at A.J. Green or Julio Jones as opposed to Vincent Jackson. Branch is terrible at this point, forgetaboutit.
I'm in that boat. AJ Green is my guy now. I like Julio Jones more, but he'll take longer to develop. If we go all defense in the first round, Hankerson is a guy I'm very interested in. Jonathan Baldwin wouldn't be bad either with our first rounder.
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Old 10-08-2010, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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This draft coming up is going to be really exciting. I'm not gonna get my hopes up that any of the guys we want they'll take, but the way this years draft went (and is going so far) it looks like we did a great job. Again, I really didnt want to get a WR in the first, but if its Green or Jones I'd come around to it. Rather go D or O line, hell even RB.


Also, has Brady said anything about the Moss trade?
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Old 10-08-2010, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Of course he hasn't, haha.

As far as the draft, if we don't use the picks and spend the money this year, I'm really not sure what direction this team actually is heading. Don't particularly care who we pick as long as we fill the holes and get the talent.
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Old 10-08-2010, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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we need more then bodies at positions this year, we need play makers.
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Old 10-08-2010, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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Starting to buy Robert Quinn. Don't think he's the most natural 3-4 OLB in the draft(Clay Matthews was one of those guys), but he's got the most potential and the largest skillset at the moment as a pass rusher.
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Old 10-09-2010, 12:49 AM    (permalink
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I'd love to have Von Miller, at the bottom of the second round or middle of the third.

He's way too over-valued for a first round pick though.

-Weak against the run.
-Can he cover?
-Definitely not a 43 DE
-Counter moves are over-rated, most of his sacks come off stunts and speed rushing

He's exciting as a 3rd down 2-4-5 guy, but not as a starter in the every down rotation.
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