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Old 02-03-2011, 03:41 PM    (permalink
FlyingElvis
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Fitz will be on our radar, no doubt. He's well worth a 1st / 3rd combo. I doubt Mankins is going to be considered the equivalent of a 1st under those circumstances, though. Honestly, Mankins + 60 and maybe a 5th sounds fair. Or even Mankins + 33 for Fitz and a 4th. We also have to be realistic regarding their respective contracts. Fitz may be moved to get something in return knowing his contract is up in 2012, whereas Mankins is a disgruntled toolshed who likely won't re-sign with NE even under a franchise tag. The bargaining position is vastly different between the two. Fitz is a class act who will play out his contract without making a big fuss.
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Old 02-04-2011, 03:09 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by proshoota25 View Post
people, people.... calm down about this fitzzz trade talk. I am pretty damn confident nothing will happen.... too much money is never a go with any player on the patriots, minus of course, the lord and christ tom brady
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Old 02-04-2011, 03:13 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
Im not sure the Cardinals have a huge need for a safety though. If they could add an elite offensive lineman I believe we could add a 3rd and they would give up Fitz.

Trade 17 and Merriweather with Dallas and take Robert Quinn
Use pick 28 for Cameron Heyward
Use pick 33 for Mike Pouncey
Use pick 60 for Ahmad Black
Trade Logan Mankins and 74 for Larry Fitzgerald
Use pick 92 for Marcus Gilbert

Sex on a stick right there
That'd be awesome, but I don't understand the need for Ahmad Black. We have two young starting caliber safeties without Meriweather. Another guy would just be a rotational player.
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Old 02-04-2011, 03:27 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by descendency View Post
That'd be awesome, but I don't understand the need for Ahmad Black. We have two young starting caliber safeties without Meriweather. Another guy would just be a rotational player.
It's all about matchups. BB tried to have 3 safeties on the field a lot of the time and have Chung matched up against the slot WR. As we seen in the Indy game that is not where he is at his best, but Black would excel in that role. It all depends on how he views the progression of Jarrad Page in the defense and whether or not McGowan will come back fully healthy. Especially if we are going to be thin at CB again next year. Black just adds another level of versatility on defense as he can be successful as both a CB and a safety.
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Old 02-04-2011, 09:06 AM    (permalink
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Patriots mock offseason

Returning

• RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis (RFA) (1-year tender)

• OT Matt Light (2-year deal)

• DE Greg Warren (1-year deal)

• LB Tracy White (1-year deal)

• CB Kyle Arrington (ERFA) (1-year tender)

• SS Josh Barrett (RFA) (1-year tender)

• SS Brandon McGowan (1-year deal)

Leaving

• QB Brian Hoyer (traded to TEN for #108 overall pick)

• RB Kevin Faulk (retirement)

• RB Fred Taylor (retirement)

• FB Sammy Morris (retirement)

• OT Stephen Neal (retirement)

• OT Quinn Ojinnaka

• OG Logan Mankins (franchise tag, traded to CHI for #29 overall pick)

• SS Brandon Meriweather (traded to DAL for #71 overall pick)

• SS Jarrad Page

• K Shayne Graham

Other

• OT Nick Kaczur (pay cut)

Free Agent Signings

• RB Pierre Thomas, Saints (2-year deal)

• OT Ryan O’Callaghan (1-year deal)

• OG Evan Mathis, Bengals (2-year deal)

• LB Matt Roth, Browns (2-year deal)

Draft Picks

• 1.17. (from Oakland) LB Aldon Smith, Missouri

• 1.28. DE Cameron Heyward, Ohio St.

• 1.29. (from Chicago Bears) WR Leonard Hankerson, Miami (FL)

• 2.33. (from Carolina) C Stefen Wisniewski, Penn St.

• 2.60. RB DeMarco Murray, Oklahoma

• 3.71. (from Dallas) FS Ahmad Black, Florida

• 3.90. CB Kendric Burney, North Carolina

• 4. (from Tennessee) LB Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma

• 5. QB Ricky Stanzi, Iowa

• 5. (compensatory selection) OG Zach Hurd, Connecticut

• 6. FB Charles Clay, Tulsa
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Old 02-04-2011, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RavenOfProphecy View Post
• QB Brian Hoyer (traded to TEN for #108 overall pick)
NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Overall, though, that would be a very nice off-season. However, I really don't believe we'll get a 1st round pick for Mankins. I see him being a giant douchenozzle if tagged and teams will know the Pats have poor bargaining position. Even if he's worth a late 1st we won't get it.
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Old 02-04-2011, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RavenOfProphecy View Post
Patriots mock offseason

Returning

• RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis (RFA) (1-year tender)

• OT Matt Light (2-year deal)

• DE Greg Warren (1-year deal)

• LB Tracy White (1-year deal)

• CB Kyle Arrington (ERFA) (1-year tender)

• SS Josh Barrett (RFA) (1-year tender)

• SS Brandon McGowan (1-year deal)

Leaving

• QB Brian Hoyer (traded to TEN for #108 overall pick)

• RB Kevin Faulk (retirement)

• RB Fred Taylor (retirement)

• FB Sammy Morris (retirement)

• OT Stephen Neal (retirement)

• OT Quinn Ojinnaka

• OG Logan Mankins (franchise tag, traded to CHI for #29 overall pick)

• SS Brandon Meriweather (traded to DAL for #71 overall pick)

• SS Jarrad Page

• K Shayne Graham

Other

• OT Nick Kaczur (pay cut)

Free Agent Signings

• RB Pierre Thomas, Saints (2-year deal)

• OT Ryan O’Callaghan (1-year deal)

• OG Evan Mathis, Bengals (2-year deal)

• LB Matt Roth, Browns (2-year deal)

Draft Picks

• 1.17. (from Oakland) LB Aldon Smith, Missouri

• 1.28. DE Cameron Heyward, Ohio St.

• 1.29. (from Chicago Bears) WR Leonard Hankerson, Miami (FL)

• 2.33. (from Carolina) C Stefen Wisniewski, Penn St.

• 2.60. RB DeMarco Murray, Oklahoma

• 3.71. (from Dallas) FS Ahmad Black, Florida

• 3.90. CB Kendric Burney, North Carolina

• 4. (from Tennessee) LB Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma

• 5. QB Ricky Stanzi, Iowa

• 5. (compensatory selection) OG Zach Hurd, Connecticut

• 6. FB Charles Clay, Tulsa
Nice work. Just a few thoughts about your draft:
DeMarco Murray looks like a nice fit in NE, but he doesn't really have any value there. I'd take Marcus Gilbert there to shore up the offensive line. Kendrick Burney is very small and even though he'd likely just be a dime corner in NE I think there are better options than him at #90. Justin Rodgers from Richmond, Curtis Marsh from Utah St. and Brandon Hogan from WV would all be better pics imo and represent better value. That leaves us one (drafted) RB short, I like Darren Evans with the comp. pick. Great value with Beal in the fourth round, do you think his stock has dropped that much after the Senior Bowl? His stock was un the rise before so I don't really know. I also loooove Aldon Smith, Cam Heyward and Leonard Hankerson in the first. That would be jizztastic! Overall, I like your mock but I'd prefer it to be a bit different. But still, I'm amazed with how most Patriot fans seem to be on the same page regarding needs, players who fit etc etc this year.
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Old 02-04-2011, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Nice work. Just a few thoughts about your draft:
DeMarco Murray looks like a nice fit in NE, but he doesn't really have any value there. I'd take Marcus Gilbert there to shore up the offensive line. Kendrick Burney is very small and even though he'd likely just be a dime corner in NE I think there are better options than him at #90. Justin Rodgers from Richmond, Curtis Marsh from Utah St. and Brandon Hogan from WVU would all be better pics imo and represent better value. That leaves us one (drafted) RB short, I like Darren Evans with the comp. pick. Great value with Beal in the fourth round, do you think his stock has dropped that much after the Senior Bowl? His stock was un the rise before so I don't really know. I also loooove Aldon Smith, Cam Heyward and Leonard Hankerson in the first. That would be jizztastic! Overall, I like your mock but I'd prefer it to be a bit different. But still, I'm amazed with how most Patriot fans seem to be on the same page regarding needs, players who fit etc etc this year.
Murray would have been a first-round pick if not for nagging injuries, so I think he'd be a great value there. Being part of a three-headed monster with BJGE and Woodhead would help him stay healthy, and he'd be a terrific addition to our shotgun offense, especially running draws and things of that nature. If he learns to run behind his pads more, he can be a special back with home-run hitting ability. He caught 71 passes last year for Oklahoma. Gilbert would be solid too, but Matt Light allowed just seven sacks last year and I think the Patriots will re-sign him. I could see them targeting someone like Riley Reiff next year if they're in a position to do so. I could see Rodgers over Burney, but that one just came down to personal preference and I went with the ball-hawk. I don't know if we'd sign Hogan because of the DUI - the Kraft family is very wary of drafting guys with those kinds of issues. Beal is probably in the third round right now but I could see him slipping a bit since he really only seems like a fit in 3-4 defenses.
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Old 02-04-2011, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FlyingElvis View Post
Fitz will be on our radar, no doubt. He's well worth a 1st / 3rd combo. I doubt Mankins is going to be considered the equivalent of a 1st under those circumstances, though. Honestly, Mankins + 60 and maybe a 5th sounds fair. Or even Mankins + 33 for Fitz and a 4th. We also have to be realistic regarding their respective contracts. Fitz may be moved to get something in return knowing his contract is up in 2012, whereas Mankins is a disgruntled toolshed who likely won't re-sign with NE even under a franchise tag. The bargaining position is vastly different between the two. Fitz is a class act who will play out his contract without making a big fuss.
Larry Fitzgerald will not be a Patriot. The asking price is 1 + 3 + 4, which is way too rich for Belichick's blood, considering Fitzgerald will also be demanding a sky-high contract. We'd all love to see him here, but it's not worth giving up that much money and that many picks. I'd put the chances of him landing here at about 10%. There are also some quality wide receivers available in free agency - Vincent Jackson, Sidney Rice, Malcolm Floyd, etc. The Patriots showed interest in trading for Jackson but got rejected by Kraft, so he's unlikely, but if New England felt like backing up the Brinks truck for someone, Sidney Rice would be a nice consolation prize and allow the team to keep three high draft picks. I'd like Floyd as a 6'5" vertical threat for Brady, and he'd likely come much cheaper than any of the guys previously mentioned.
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Old 02-04-2011, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Eh, I think Light gets resigned as well but not for the same reasons.
M.Light struggled all season. T.Brady is the reason M.Light didn't give up 20 sacks this season.
Light got raped by a washed-up Jason Taylor. How can we trust him against the Peppers, Freeneys and Wakes of the world.
If it were up to me, I'd let Light go unless he agreed to slide inside to OG.
Vollmer to LT, Nick K to RT, resign Mankins and draft a C. Boom! OL transformed.


edit: I wasn't a fan of Nick K at RT the season before either so a guy like Gilbert would be nice to draft as well
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Old 02-04-2011, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Larry Fitzgerald will not be a Patriot. The asking price is 1 + 3 + 4, which is way too rich for Belichick's blood, considering Fitzgerald will also be demanding a sky-high contract. We'd all love to see him here, but it's not worth giving up that much money and that many picks. I'd put the chances of him landing here at about 10%. There are also some quality wide receivers available in free agency - Vincent Jackson, Sidney Rice, Malcolm Floyd, etc. The Patriots showed interest in trading for Jackson but got rejected by Kraft, so he's unlikely, but if New England felt like backing up the Brinks truck for someone, Sidney Rice would be a nice consolation prize and allow the team to keep three high draft picks. I'd like Floyd as a 6'5" vertical threat for Brady, and he'd likely come much cheaper than any of the guys previously mentioned.
The asking price is rarely the actual price. I think BB would pull the trigger on a deal for Fitz if the cost is a reasonable one, rather than a highest paid WR contract. BB has to see the same issue we all see with 7 zillion draft picks over two years - there's just not enough roster space for that many young guys.
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Old 02-04-2011, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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that was a while ago. before the constant "draft pick compilation" age
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Old 02-04-2011, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Larry Fitzgerald will not be a Patriot. The asking price is 1 + 3 + 4, which is way too rich for Belichick's blood, considering Fitzgerald will also be demanding a sky-high contract. We'd all love to see him here, but it's not worth giving up that much money and that many picks. I'd put the chances of him landing here at about 10%. There are also some quality wide receivers available in free agency - Vincent Jackson, Sidney Rice, Malcolm Floyd, etc. The Patriots showed interest in trading for Jackson but got rejected by Kraft, so he's unlikely, but if New England felt like backing up the Brinks truck for someone, Sidney Rice would be a nice consolation prize and allow the team to keep three high draft picks. I'd like Floyd as a 6'5" vertical threat for Brady, and he'd likely come much cheaper than any of the guys previously mentioned.
Considering the amount of players that have stuck from the last 3 draft classes (over 60% of the roster) and the Patriots' 2011 Draft outlook (10 picks?), that's an easy price to pay for Fitzgerald.

Considering the contracts and age at the WR position (one of the older and more volatile position groups for the Pats), the lack of success the Patriots have had with WRs through the draft, and who Fitz is as a player and person...I'd give up those picks to lock that position down with a HoF player for the next 6+ years. ABSOLUTELY worth it.

As mentioned, the Patriots have almost completely overhauled their roster with youth while remaining one of the best teams in the NFL. I fear bringing in too much youth at this point, to be honest. The team is close to having overhauled 80% of its roster with rookies over the last 4 drafts (including 2011). Rookies aren't going to take this team to the next level at this point, it's going to be a piece like Fitzgerald.

The team is still going to bring in a lot of new young talent, but I'm definitely in favor of getting a proven dominant player who is an amazing person like Fitzgerald at the cost of about a quarter of the draft picks the Patriots control.
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Old 02-04-2011, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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The asking price is rarely the actual price. I think BB would pull the trigger on a deal for Fitz if the cost is a reasonable one, rather than a highest paid WR contract. BB has to see the same issue we all see with 7 zillion draft picks over two years - there's just not enough roster space for that many young guys.
Bingo. They're going to be dealing some picks. And it might be on the same level as the 2007 draft where they're just really happy with the guys they have and will add a couple pieces, but are more interested in turning the picks they can into future picks and definite veteran upgrades.

Honestly, I'm really happy with the current roster. Getting some key guys back healthy and the development of the young players alone is going to make this team better than 2010 by leaps and bounds. The key for the off-season is to find the right mix with a few new players.
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Old 02-04-2011, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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Considering the amount of players that have stuck from the last 3 draft classes (over 60% of the roster) and the Patriots' 2011 Draft outlook (10 picks?), that's an easy price to pay for Fitzgerald.

Considering the contracts and age at the WR position (one of the older and more volatile position groups for the Pats), the lack of success the Patriots have had with WRs through the draft, and who Fitz is as a player and person...I'd give up those picks to lock that position down with a HoF player for the next 6+ years. ABSOLUTELY worth it.

As mentioned, the Patriots have almost completely overhauled their roster with youth while remaining one of the best teams in the NFL. I fear bringing in too much youth at this point, to be honest. The team is close to having overhauled 80% of its roster with rookies over the last 4 drafts (including 2011). Rookies aren't going to take this team to the next level at this point, it's going to be a piece like Fitzgerald.

The team is still going to bring in a lot of new young talent, but I'm definitely in favor of getting a proven dominant player who is an amazing person like Fitzgerald at the cost of about a quarter of the draft picks the Patriots control.
fitz is going to command so much money. he will not be a patriot. pats wont pay that. its a good price to pay to trade him, but the pats wont give the money. i think we have a chance of getting two impact rookies atleast in this draft, and they could help take this team to a new level, especially if we get an OLB. you cant assume rookies wont make an impact, look at this year, they were key parts of our team
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Old 02-04-2011, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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The key is finding someone that can at least touch an opposing QB for once.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 02-04-2011, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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The key is finding someone that can at least touch an opposing QB for once.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 02-04-2011, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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The key is finding someone that can at least touch an opposing QB for once.
HEY!! Cunningham gets a few fingers(sometimes a palm) on a jersey every once in a while.
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Old 02-04-2011, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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Won us a game by doing so even...but we do need our Clay Matthews.
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Old 02-04-2011, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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I really think we're one elite pass rusher away from playing in the Super Bowl.
I'd love it if we got to win the SuperBowl in the Jets/Giants stadium.
How great would that be to celebrate on BOTH their fields at the same time? lol
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Old 02-04-2011, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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I think we're at that point too. I'm not expecting an elite pass rusher right away from this draft class though barring something spectacular. Someone with some potential who can come in and contribute and has upside going forward is more realistic and I think we could make a deep post-season run with that too along with some help on the defensive line. Ideally, we get a defensive end who can effect both the passing game and the run game along with said pass rusher.
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Old 02-05-2011, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Right now I'm hoping for:

1. Aldon Smith
1. Stefen Wisniewski
2. Muhammad Wilkerson
2. Danny Watkins
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Old 02-05-2011, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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I am very high on Smith and Watkins, especially at the end of round 2. I like Wisniewski and think he would be a very good fit here for what we like to do, I just don't know if he warrants a first round selection. It isn't up to me though, if our staff likes him enough we will take him when we want, I just don't know if he is a Nick Mangold/Alex Mack type prospect. I will admit that I don't know too much about Wilkerson, but we do need a 5-tech and I know you are pretty high on him ROP.
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Old 02-05-2011, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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I'd like Cam Jordan over any LB with our 1st pick at this point. I think we can get a quality Pass rusher at 27/33.

I'm liking Hankerson alot too, but we can't neglect the OL for the pretty positions.
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Mobility > Accuracy
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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An all Pac 10 first round of Cam Jordan and Brooks Reed would be ideal for me. Think both of those guys can come in and be productive right away and have a lot of upside going forward too.
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