New England Patriots Discussion

[ElectricEye]

That would be taking away his greatest asset, asking him to cut weight. Wouldn't make any sense at all.

[A Perfect Score]

I ran the Patriots in fenikz's mock draft. Here it is so far:

1. JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin
1. Torrey Smith, WR, Maryland
2. Brooks Reed, OLB, Arizona
2. Rodney Hudson, C, Florida State
3. James Carpenter, OG, Alabama
3. Shane Vereen, RB, Cal
4. Owen Marecic, FB, Stanford
5. Shiloh Keo, S, Idaho

Thoughts and critiques appreciated, would love to hear from some actual Pats fans.

[nepg]

I like Smith, but I don't know that I would have bothered with a WR in this draft. OT or earlier interior OL help maybe?

2 black OLs on the Pats? This is a token black society, sir. We need a red beard in there somewhere.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

I ran the Patriots in fenikz's mock draft. Here it is so far:

1. JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin
1. Torrey Smith, WR, Maryland
2. Brooks Reed, OLB, Arizona
2. Rodney Hudson, C, Florida State
3. James Carpenter, OG, Alabama
3. Shane Vereen, RB, Cal
4. Owen Marecic, FB, Stanford
5. Shiloh Keo, S, Idaho

Thoughts and critiques appreciated, would love to hear from some actual Pats fans.

Im not a Torrey Smith fan for the Pats. They already have two guys who can do what he does in Tate and Price and both deserve more time to develop. At WR it's either AJ Green, Julio Jones or Leonard Hankerson for me early in the draft.

Love the Watt and Reed picks and I cant argue with going Hudson and Carpenter. Both guys offer versatility along the line and shoudl at least be top quality back ups. Hudson may need to add some weight though.

Vereen is a meh pick at the end of the third. RB is not a pressing need and I believe the third round is a little high.

The Pats dont use the FB that often and even when Heath Evans was here they seldom used him outside the goal line. That being said, with the move toward the more power orientated pro sets with the TEs maybe a FB would be more used.

I dont know enough about Keo to comment properly but at that point he would be a strictly depth player.

Overall an ok draft.

[ElectricEye]

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

I ran the Patriots in fenikz's mock draft. Here it is so far:
1. JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin

Awesome pick. I prefer Jordan personally, but if he's not there this is a damn good pick. Just the kind of guy we need around here.

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

1. Torrey Smith, WR, Maryland

Another good pick and a really good value. I really don't see Smith as this one trick pony some do. Good combination of size/speed and hands. Should be able to get open down the field and against good man coverages, which is just what we need.

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

2. Brooks Reed, OLB, Arizona

This is my man crush this year a darn good value at the top of the second. I legitimately feel Reed might be the best pass rusher from this draft as 3-4 OLB outside of Robert Quinn down the line a few years. Easy, natural athleticism and speed combined with tenacity and speed tend to play well at that position.

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

2. Rodney Hudson, C, Florida State

I'm not the biggest Hudson guy, but he's a good scheme fit I guess. I would prefer another player in this spot, personally. Don't think he would be a massive upgrade over Koppen and that's the thing we're looking for at center. I understand he's a good technician and all that, but he didn't deal with Phil Taylor well at the Senior Bowl from what I saw. That's the kind of guy we should be looking for, someone who can anchor and do a good job on nose tackles that regularly terrorize Koppen.

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

3. James Carpenter, OG, Alabama

I'm a big fan. I think he could play either guard spot and maybe even tackle at the next level. Came out and really looked more mobile and athletic than given credit for and should be a very good RG in our scheme.

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

3. Shane Vereen, RB, Cal

This is just what we need at runningback. A complete back with speed. Probably wouldn't start right away here, but down the line he well could and be very effective. Good fit.

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

4. Owen Marecic, FB, Stanford

We've passed on traditional FB's many times before...but maybe we were just looking for this guy. Meets all our requirements for character and willingness to wear more than one hat. Really love the pick.

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

5. Shiloh Keo, S, Idaho

Probably more of a special teams guy, right? I really didn't notice him much in the Idaho games I watched.

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

Thoughts and critiques appreciated, would love to hear from some actual Pats fans.

This is a really, really good draft for us man. I would love it if this actually happened.

[Jvig43]

I hate it APS, get out of here.



Naaah outside of Smith and verheem in the third I'd say it's fine.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

Awesome pick. I prefer Jordan personally, but if he's not there this is a damn good pick. Just the kind of guy we need around here.


Another good pick and a really good value. I really don't see Smith as this one trick pony some do. Good combination of size/speed and hands. Should be able to get open down the field and against good man coverages, which is just what we need.


This is my man crush this year a darn good value at the top of the second. I legitimately feel Reed might be the best pass rusher from this draft as 3-4 OLB outside of Robert Quinn down the line a few years. Easy, natural athleticism and speed combined with tenacity and speed tend to play well at that position.


I'm not the biggest Hudson guy, but he's a good scheme fit I guess. I would prefer another player in this spot, personally. Don't think he would be a massive upgrade over Koppen and that's the thing we're looking for at center. I understand he's a good technician and all that, but he didn't deal with Phil Taylor well at the Senior Bowl from what I saw. That's the kind of guy we should be looking for, someone who can anchor and do a good job on nose tackles that regularly terrorize Koppen.


I'm a big fan. I think he could play either guard spot and maybe even tackle at the next level. Came out and really looked more mobile and athletic than given credit for and should be a very good RG in our scheme.


This is just what we need at runningback. A complete back with speed. Probably wouldn't start right away here, but down the line he well could and be very effective. Good fit.


We've passed on traditional FB's many times before...but maybe we were just looking for this guy. Meets all our requirements for character and willingness to wear more than one hat. Really love the pick.


Probably more of a special teams guy, right? I really didn't notice him much in the Idaho games I watched.


This is a really, really good draft for us man. I would love it if this actually happened.

I thought it was ok, I certainly wouldn't be upset but I wouldn't be tremendously thrilled. I prefer Hankerson at the end of the first to Smith, but either way it's not where I would prefer to go in the first round. I understand why you like it, but I would question one or two of the picks.

[Nalej]

Not a big fan of the 1st rd, honestly.
JJ Watt seems more of a pass rusher, not a gap style player
T.Smith, like ACD said, if it's not Hankerson, JJ or Green, I'm not really interested in a WR that early

I have a man crush on C.Heyward. Don't know if he's available at any of those two spots on your mock but just throwing my two cents.

Oh, and while I don't like Watt on our base D...
I think he'd be a beast a the UT in our nickel packages.
He can really get after the QB

[ElectricEye]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I thought it was ok, I certainly wouldn't be upset but I wouldn't be tremendously thrilled. I prefer Hankerson at the end of the first to Smith, but either way it's not where I would prefer to go in the first round. I understand why you like it, but I would question one or two of the picks.

Why question Smith? He might be a similar player to Tate physically, but that doesn't mean they're equal players. Smith's hands and route running ability aren't a problem and he should be able to do the things that we're looking for. Much better player thank Hankerson because of his speed. Doesn't have the concentration and hands problems either.

Originally Posted by Nalej

Not a big fan of the 1st rd, honestly.
JJ Watt seems more of a pass rusher, not a gap style player

He can do both. If you're a fan of Cameron Jordan, no reason not to love JJ Watt. Very stout at the POA and very strong. He has the frame to get up to 320 pounds eventually and maintain his quickness too.

Originally Posted by Nalej

Oh, and while I don't like Watt on our base D...
I think he'd be a beast a the UT in our nickel packages.
He can really get after the QB

Wouldn't be a good spot for him. He's likely a Justin Smith type guy in terms of role in a defense because of his height. Not really a good interior pass rusher.


As far as Vereen goes...I think you guys are underrating him quite a bit. I think we would all prefer not to get a runningback in the first couple of rounds, but he's a massive upgrade in terms of talent over the guys we have right now. This is the type of guy who can put up a lot of yards in a lot of different ways. I know we all love Woodhead and he's here to stay, but he's not a starter in this league. Vereen probably is.

[A Perfect Score]

If I can help to justify some of them...

JJ Watt is the second coming of Aaron Smith. He's big, strong, and extremely long. I chose him over someone like Cam Heyward for you guys because while he is excellent against the run, he could also provide some pass rush from the 5 tech spot. I think he's a good fit schematically and great value at 17.

Torrey Smith hasn't been well received by most, but I think he's getting a bit of a bad rep right now. I like the Roddy White comparisons. He's got a little more speed and a little less size, but he certainly isn't just a deep threat. He's ubertalented and I picked him over Hankerson and Baldwin because I think he's a better player and better value.

Vereen is one of my favorite players in this class and I have him ranked as my #3 back. The guy is a playmaker and it was an absolute coup getting him where I did. You can never have too much depth or too many playmakers and Vereen is a guy I thought could add a little to the backfield.

Rodney Hudson is the most decorated lineman in ACC history. He's got every tool to be a Pro Bowl centre for 10 years. Give him one year in an NFL S&C program and I think you've got a stud on your hands. He's highly intelligent, mobile, and should help to anchor the offensive line.

I tried to get an OT earlier but the value just didn't match up. I'm a big fan of Carpenter and I assumed that Vollmer could kick over to LT in time with Carpenter manning the right side. If he fails there, kick him inside to OG and run with it.

Big reason I took Marecic is because he's versatile. He's the kind of player that will pop you in the mouth no matter where he lines up, and while most don't think he has the ability to play LB in the NFL like he did at Stanford, I think in a pinch he could stick there and versatility is never a bad thing.

[Wootylicous]

I loveeeeeeee Marecic he would be excellenttttttttt with the pats. Love the Watt pick too.

btw I kind of want Salas for some reason in the later rounds.

[A Perfect Score]

I thought about taking Salas with one of the later picks, but I figured since I drafted Smith already the receiving core would be very deep with Branch - Tate - Smith - Welker and Danny Woodhead and Vereen coming out of the backfield. Marecic is also a damn fine receiver out of there as well.

[Wootylicous]

I think you could've went with Pouncey instead of Torrey Smith and get Salas in the later rounds. Nice draft though!

[ElectricEye]

We really don't need a Salas type as attractive as he is as a slot receiver. We need a receiver who can get open against physical, press coverage...someone who can do damage on the outside inside instead of going to the middle every time.

[descendency]

We need someone who won't get stuck on Revis Island, to put it mildly.

[ElectricEye]

Mayock five technique rankings(only first rounders);

1. JJ Watt
2. Cameron Jordan
3. Cam Heyward


http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/02/07/mayo...efensive-ends/


Good stuff there. Obviously Mayock isn't god, but he's well connected to other scouts and his rankings reflect that. Reposted, but posted in response to people saying Watt isn't a good fit in a 3-4. He'll likely be drafted to play that position.

[descendency]

Eh, Mike Mayock wouldn't be my first choice for a scout of DL. He's been dead wrong about quite a few "first rounders", mostly notably Robert Ayers. He's a stud with RB/WR/TE/CB/S/LBs though, typically.

I could end up being wrong, but I see a guy who is more Jared Allen than Aaron Smith.

[ElectricEye]

Thing is, often times he's got information on how teams feel about guys and such. Not sure a mass deception about a guy not suited for a position would occur like that.

[Jvig43]

Franchise tag on Mankins, check.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...e=HP_headlines

[ElectricEye]

Expected. At least we'll get some value for him in a trade and it does extent the negotiation window.

[Nalej]

I hope he didn't think he was just going to up and leave, right? RIGHT?!

[BradysKnee]

I bet we get a 2nd for him.

[nepg]

Hopefully it's like the Wilfork situation where they just tagged him to give everyone time to work something out (business, personal, et al.). I'd rather have Logan Mankins than whatever compensation they can get for him. Pretty sure everyone feels that way. He brings a different energy to the offense that was obviously missed in his absence.

[Nalej]

Originally Posted by nepg

Hopefully it's like the Wilfork situation where they just tagged him to give everyone time to work something out (business, personal, et al.). I'd rather have Logan Mankins than whatever compensation they can get for him. Pretty sure everyone feels that way. He brings a different energy to the offense that was obviously missed in his absence.

This is what I'm hoping as well. I know Wilfork didn't like being tagged initially either but **** it.
It worked out in the long run for both parties

[ElectricEye]

I would rather have Mankins than compensation as well. To get good value, we would have to receive a mid first rounder. That's completely unrealistic obviously. We would be taking a loss on any trade for sure.