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Old 03-03-2011, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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I do agree with that for the record...but he's not doing much to say that he won't be. We'll have to see. The things he does wrong are very coachable, but he does them so often it's questionable as to if he'll ever get over them.
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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I'd be shocked if Butler was cut heading into the 2011 season. He seems like he has great position at all times. The problem is when the balls in the air and the play needs to be made - even though he has solid postion - he just sucks harder than a crackwhore looking to score a rock.

The athletic ability, field/play awareness and overall skills are there. Playing the ball can be coached some but the guys who do so instinctively are the best CBs, so I'm not holding out hope on Butler.
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Old 03-04-2011, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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Personally I think Butler has a ton of talent, problem is mental.

The guy is playing scared, not confident. He is so scared to get beat that he makes mistakes, does not focus.

The guy needs a big play to get some confidence and let it grow.
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Old 03-04-2011, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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I mulliganed this season for Butler from Week 1. He just didn't look right. I'm fairly confident that he can get it together. He didn't look anywhere near the same player he was as a rookie. I wonder if McCourty coming in and playing so well right away screwed with Butler's head.
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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I would be concerned about that if I was into psychoanalyzing things(I'm not, but I see the thought process). He's clearly a guy who isn't playing with confidence and that can't help.

I don't see a guy who constantly gets good position like some of you guys do to. Once the play isn't in front of him, he has trouble tracking the receiver and the ball down. Really doesn't look comfortable transitioning out of his back pedal and running with guys. Said it earlier in the off season, but he he might end up being a potential safety candidate. Only thing that's concerning about that is his size.
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Old 03-04-2011, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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I would be concerned about that if I was into psychoanalyzing things(I'm not, but I see the thought process). He's clearly a guy who isn't playing with confidence and that can't help.

I don't see a guy who constantly gets good position like some of you guys do to. Once the play isn't in front of him, he has trouble tracking the receiver and the ball down. Really doesn't look comfortable transitioning out of his back pedal and running with guys. Said it earlier in the off season, but he he might end up being a potential safety candidate. Only thing that's concerning about that is his size.
Yeah I don't see it either, I remember after the Miami game he batted down like one 8 yard pass and people were like "it's good to see Butler improving out there" haha, understandable that we want him to do well, but his "improvements" last year weren't anything to bring about mentioning. I think everyone in my neighborhood heard me screaming at Butler in that last Jets game where Edwards got like a 40 yard TD off of him. I was just screaming "WHY IS BUTLER IN THIS GAME?". I think he is easily one of my most hated Patriot players as of now actually. Everytime he was in last year he just ****** everything up for us.
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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Rumor has it that Brandon Harris is a 3rd round guy...

HFS... if the Patriots don't take him with pick 60, I will cry. He could be our nickel DB for 10 years (or until he gets moved to LCB)
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Old 03-05-2011, 08:02 AM    (permalink
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I could see the Pats taking a CB in the 2nd round and Harris would be a good pick. Wouldn't even surprise me if they took him at 28 really.
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Old 03-05-2011, 08:08 AM    (permalink
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I like Butler and hope he can finally get it, but it may be time to just accept the fact that he is what he is. We had high expectations for him last year based on some flashes that he showed his rookie year. But it's not like he really did a whole lot his rookie year to justify any great expectations.

Was his poor play simply a lack of confidence? I hear that a lot, that his confidence is shot but when he gets it back he will be fine. But do we really know that's what the problem was? I don't think there's any way to say that for sure. Maybe he's just not that good.

In the end he may just be a career backup. I'd still rather have him than Wilhite though. But drafting a CB in the early rounds wouldn't be a bad move. Get a guy who can be your nickel back and eventually take over for Bodden.
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Old 03-05-2011, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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Harris in the third round would be phenomenal and an excellent, no brainer pick. Think he goes higher in the end.
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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I think Harris is, at worst, a mid-2nd rounder. He's too solid all-around.
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Old 03-05-2011, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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I could see the Pats taking a CB in the 2nd round and Harris would be a good pick. Wouldn't even surprise me if they took him at 28 really.
It seems NFL scouts don't love him like fans do.
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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I'm not completely sold on that. These rumors have a tendency to go both ways. Harris liked what he heard from the advisory board, otherwise he would have stayed in school and competed to be one of the top corners selected next year.
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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It would be so interesting to see the actual boards of all the teams. I'm sure there are lots of cases where a player is rated vastly different from one team to another, maybe even a couple rounds different. Maybe that's the case with Harris.
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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I could see cornerback being an early pick - the Patriots probably thought they had something in Darius Butler after his rookie campaign, Bodden had just received a new contract after a great 2009 season, and they drafted McCourty in the first round anyways. Brandon Harris makes a lot of sense for the Patriots if they look in that direction - I definitely don't see Jimmy Smith, and Aaron Williams doesn't scream Patriots to me either.

Lately I've also been thinking about New England doubling up on ends and I'd support it as long as they did a decent job addressing their other needs as well. What about an all-defense draft for the first couple of rounds? Something like:

1. DE Cameron Jordan, California

1. DE Cameron Heyward, Ohio St.

2. CB Brandon Harris, Miami (FL)*

2. LB Sam Acho, Texas
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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I'm not on the double DE first round.
Simply bc in the 1st two rounds, I'd like to see interior OL, OT, OLB and DE addressed.
Out of all those DE is honestly in the best position.

While I think a starting DL of Jordan/Wilfork/Heyward is sexy, we already have
T. Warren, M.Wright, R.Brace, M.Stroud, B.Deadrick, K.Weston, D. Richard K.Love and the rookie (hopefully, in this upcoming draft)

I'm completely okay with that rotation as long as they are healthy
What I don't want is TBC, Ninkovich or any other currest roster OLB not named Cunningham starting
I really do think we need to take R.Quinn, R.Kerrigan, J.Houston or A.Smith.
Brooks, Acho or Sheard- I'd be okay with but I feel they'll take to crack the starting lineup
With our D being our achilles heal, I'm all for grabbing players that can make a difference sooner rather than later.

Nevermind the fact that our OL is full of uncertainty minus Vollmer
He's the only guy that I can say for sure will be starting for us next year.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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I'm starting to grow into the Quinn camp. I don't know how they'd be able to get him, but Quinn would be the ideal guy coming off the edge. I don't think anyone else in this draft is nearly as explosive.
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Old 03-09-2011, 03:33 AM    (permalink
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I'm starting to grow into the Quinn camp. I don't know how they'd be able to get him, but Quinn would be the ideal guy coming off the edge. I don't think anyone else in this draft is nearly as explosive.
yeah we would all jizz if we got quinn. i know some are against it, but im willing to move up and give up a #60 or a 3rd round pick to make it happen. the guy would almost instantly improve our pass rush and would (in my opinion) put up stats from an OLB that we havent seen before (in a few seasons, that is)
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Old 03-09-2011, 03:40 AM    (permalink
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I could see cornerback being an early pick - the Patriots probably thought they had something in Darius Butler after his rookie campaign, Bodden had just received a new contract after a great 2009 season, and they drafted McCourty in the first round anyways. Brandon Harris makes a lot of sense for the Patriots if they look in that direction - I definitely don't see Jimmy Smith, and Aaron Williams doesn't scream Patriots to me either.

Lately I've also been thinking about New England doubling up on ends and I'd support it as long as they did a decent job addressing their other needs as well. What about an all-defense draft for the first couple of rounds? Something like:

1. DE Cameron Jordan, California

1. DE Cameron Heyward, Ohio St.

2. CB Brandon Harris, Miami (FL)*

2. LB Sam Acho, Texas
I would personally be against it as I feel the main areas that could be addressed are DE, OLB and interior O line. Of those positions DE is the strongest.

At OLB Cunningham is a good strongside OLB but will never be confused for Demarcus Ware. Ninkovich, Moore and TBC are all nice role players but shouldn't be starting.

At offensive line we may go into the year with Vollmer, Connolly and Koppen the only players with any real experience. I think someone like Pouncey, Watkins, Ijalana or Wisniewski needs to be the pick at either 28 or 33.

In your draft I like the value of Harris and I like Acho. I have a sneaky suspicion he could go a lot higher than people expect as well. But we need O line early and often IMO.
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Old 03-09-2011, 06:40 AM    (permalink
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I think we need an OL bad enough that they won't take all Defense in the first 4 picks. We are about to be in a ****-storm in terms of our OL if we don't draft some players.

Connolly is average at best. Mankins wants to GTFO. Light may retire soon - or may not be back. Vollmer is a starter for sure. Nick Kaczur may be cut because of his back problems and "high" salary (though, it's only high for a backup - which is what I see him as). The rest of the guys are not on the field because they are not NFL starting material.

The Patriots need a serious investment into their OL.

I've had their needs at OLB, DE, OG/C (maybe X2), OT, and maybe a #1 WR. Those are my biggest concerns on this team and it's my personal belief that the 5 men you put in front of your QB (and their chemistry) is more important than your QB on championship caliber teams.

edit: I'm starting to think if the Patriots feel either JJ Watt (though, as I said - Mr Condon is his agent) or Cam Jordan could be a lock (at 17 - or higher maybe) if they feel either could play OLB, DE, and UT. That would be a Bill Belichick orgasm.
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:05 AM    (permalink
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Im hearing actually quite a bit about teams having real consideration for Cam Jordan to play some OLB. Watt I havent heard anything and im not sure he has the athleticism to do so. If BB believes Jordan can play standing up I would take him and someone like Wilkerson and Heyward at either 28 or 33. However to base DEs are not a necessity at this juncture.
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:28 AM    (permalink
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Im hearing actually quite a bit about teams having real consideration for Cam Jordan to play some OLB. Watt I havent heard anything and im not sure he has the athleticism to do so. If BB believes Jordan can play standing up I would take him and someone like Wilkerson and Heyward at either 28 or 33. However to base DEs are not a necessity at this juncture.
I agree that the pick could be spent on a linebacker or lineman, but even though we have a lot of decent role players in guys like Brace, Wright, Stroud, possibly Gerard Warren, etc., we arguably don't have a single long-term starter on roster. Ty Warren may only have a couple of years left and even he could be released. He has a reasonable cap number and I think the Patriots will see what he's got but he's not a lock to be on the team at the start of next season.

It's very hard to evaluate the Patriots' team needs this offseason because most of it is to be determined by factors we know nothing about. Offensive tackle depends on whether or not Light is back, we need one guard or two if the Patriots don't think Mankins will ever be re-signed, one defensive end and two if they're worried about Warren, and a cornerback if Leigh Bodden's not going to be able to return to his previous level of play.
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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I agree on OL. It definitely needs to be addressed.
The only sure fire starter on the team right now is Vollmer.

As for C.Jordan... if he can play OLB and UT in our subpackages... OMG!
He'd be a dream come true. I'm not sure he'd be able to play base packages too though.
That's just be a 'freak of nature's' freak of nature. If he can, more power to him.
I just can't see anyone that athletic and versatile and not be a demi-god.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:27 AM    (permalink
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He'd be Myron Pryor if he could do those things... Or Jarvis Green...? The Patriots have plenty of versatile platoon players at DL. If they draft a DL, it should be one that is an every down guy at DE...a straight-up 5-tech.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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He'd be Myron Pryor if he could do those things... Or Jarvis Green...? The Patriots have plenty of versatile platoon players at DL. If they draft a DL, it should be one that is an every down guy at DE...a straight-up 5-tech.
C.HEYWARD!!!

Also, Pryor and J.Green never played OLB though.
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