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Old 04-26-2011, 02:48 AM    (permalink
proshoota25
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Can't sleep.. been thinking about various possibilities for mock drafts for the patriots.... this might not be the exact lineup i submit for our challenge.. but this is what i am thinking... and am fairly confident about.....:

1. Anthony Castonzo, OT, BC
1. Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio St.
2. Mikel LeShoure, RB, Illinois
2. Sam Acho, OLB, Texas
3. John Moffitt, G/C, Wisconsin
3. Ahmad Black, S, UF

Not the most ideal mock.... to my standards anyway, but i think its very realistic.... has the mix of experience and captains, along with some developmental players. thoughts?
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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Doesn't Castonzo have the same agent as J.J. Watt? Otherwise minus the trades looks like a realistic Pat's draft.

(Neither here nor there but I'd not be surprised to see the Pat's move up to 12 (Vikings) to grab C.Jordan if he's still available.)
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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I really dont want Castonzo at 17.
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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I really dont want Castonzo at 17.
I'll tell you a little secret... the Patriots won't draft him. 100% sure.
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Logan Mankins (his thoughts on the Patriots possibly drafting guards)
"I don't care who they draft. They could draft three guards, for all I care, they still have to beat me out. And if they release me, someone would pay me to play for them, so I'm not too worried about that."
That sounds like Mankins will be around for training camp.
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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I'll tell you a little secret... the Patriots won't draft him. 100% sure.
based on what? this guy has everything the patriots would look for.... plus hes a local guy with great intangibles, and someone dante personally worked out.
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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trust me i dont want an OT in the first round, but i think castonzo could be a possibility
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:07 AM    (permalink
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1. Anthony Castonzo, OT, BC
1. Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio St.
2. Mikel LeShoure, RB, Illinois
2. Sam Acho, OLB, Texas
3. John Moffitt, G/C, Wisconsin
3. Ahmad Black, S, UF
Depending on how the draft goes I can see Castonzo being the first pick. Personally I'd rather go after Carimi or Smith because I'm pretty sure Light will be back and Castonzo is more a plug and play guy and those other two need some development but have a slightly higher ceiling.

I just don't get why everyone is so desperate for NE to draft a DE. Unless Ty Warren is released I don't see why.

I think and hope they trade up to grab at least Kerrigan. Didn't like what I saw from the guys past the top half of the first rounder regarding pass rushers. To me Miller, Kerrigan, Quinn and Aldon, in that order, are the ones that could make a difference. The rest doesn't seem to add to TBC, Moore, Cunningham and Ninkovic.
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:22 AM    (permalink
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based on what? this guy has everything the patriots would look for.... plus hes a local guy with great intangibles, and someone dante personally worked out.
Tom Condon.

edit: It was said earlier, but I seriously seriously doubt the Patriots touch a Condon guy without a rookie salary slotting system.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:07 AM    (permalink
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I'm not a fan of OL at 17 either, but I've done it in mocks for different challenges on here. The value at 17 is average (at best) for Pouncey / Carimi / Constanzo but if that's the way we go I'd be ok with it. Assuming, of course, the we still are able to fill big needs later in the draft.

I don't believe for even a second that the Patriots organization would pass on a prospect they thought was an excellent talent based on his agent.

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I just don't get why everyone is so desperate for NE to draft a DE. Unless Ty Warren is released I don't see why.
We have no full time starter for the opposite side of Ty and there's no guarantee that Ty comes back to form. He's older and every other DE on the roster is either old or average (or both) so we absolutely need to get younger and get depth at the DE spot. Every time Vince Wilfork lined up at DE last season it was an undeniable reminder that we do not have what we need at DE.
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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We have no full time starter for the opposite side of Ty and there's no guarantee that Ty comes back to form. He's older and every other DE on the roster is either old or average (or both) so we absolutely need to get younger and get depth at the DE spot. Every time Vince Wilfork lined up at DE last season it was an undeniable reminder that we do not have what we need at DE.
I understand what you are saying, but you have to remember that the only reason we didn't have a full time starter was because of injury. The line was supposed to be Warren, Wilfork and Gerard Warren, but at one time we were so thin at DE guys were playing every snap. My only concern with Ty is if they try to trade or cut him since reports have surfaced saying they want to cut his pay and that he wouldn't take it. Ty turned 30 in February, I hardly think that's an age DL drops in performance and his injury was reported as not being that serious, he even said he could have played through it but decided against it to have a longer career. Other athletes with the same problem came back with no problem at all. Maybe because there may not be a pre-season he starts slow but by the third game he'd be fine.
We have Kade Weston, 24 coming back from injury, Mike Wright, 29 who I think would be fine starting, Brandon Deaderick, 23 has good potential, Darryl Richard, 24 hasn't showed much but is young and has time to develop, Landon Cohen, 24 and the only one who is older than Ty is Stroud who we just signed at 32. The Pats biggest problem was injury that ate away any depth they had and made people start getting desperate about DE. I think Wright can start and be fine and Warren\Wilfork are solid. I would only draft a 34 DE at 17 or higher if he would be an instant pro bowler or if his ceiling was future HoF, since I don't see no one in this draft class like that I would wait to pick a DE.
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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I don't see any of those young guys as any more than depth. Ty is the only full time DE I see on our roster. Wright is great as a situational guy but is an immediate target for run audibles when he's in the game. G.Warren is not the answer and that means DE is a big need.

The biggest point of discord in our opinions is on the DEs available at 17 or 28. I see Cam Jordan, JJ Watt, Heyward and even Wilkerson as immediate upgrades over the talent we have as our LDE.

Jordan & Watt at 17 have pro-bowl potential without question in my mind. Heyward & Wilkerson at 28 (maybe 33) would be nice, if not.
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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I believe 3 likely scenarios for us tomorrow.

1. Trade up for Amukamara
2. Stay put and grab C. Jordan (hopefully)
3. Grab D. Bowers at #17.

If none of those options are there I think we trade down and get Solder, Carimi, maybe Watkins or Heyward.
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Old 04-27-2011, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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Gerard Warren sucks.
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Old 04-27-2011, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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I was just saying I dont want castanzo at 17 rather than no o-line. But I pray to God we come out of this draft with a DE/OLB in the first round. Thats all I want is an impact pass rusher. I know we have other areas of need but this position has needed addressing for several years now, its ******* time to deal with haha.
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Old 04-27-2011, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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I understand what you are saying, but you have to remember that the only reason we didn't have a full time starter was because of injury. The line was supposed to be Warren, Wilfork and Gerard Warren, but at one time we were so thin at DE guys were playing every snap. My only concern with Ty is if they try to trade or cut him since reports have surfaced saying they want to cut his pay and that he wouldn't take it. Ty turned 30 in February, I hardly think that's an age DL drops in performance and his injury was reported as not being that serious, he even said he could have played through it but decided against it to have a longer career. Other athletes with the same problem came back with no problem at all. Maybe because there may not be a pre-season he starts slow but by the third game he'd be fine.
We have Kade Weston, 24 coming back from injury, Mike Wright, 29 who I think would be fine starting, Brandon Deaderick, 23 has good potential, Darryl Richard, 24 hasn't showed much but is young and has time to develop, Landon Cohen, 24 and the only one who is older than Ty is Stroud who we just signed at 32. The Pats biggest problem was injury that ate away any depth they had and made people start getting desperate about DE. I think Wright can start and be fine and Warren\Wilfork are solid. I would only draft a 34 DE at 17 or higher if he would be an instant pro bowler or if his ceiling was future HoF, since I don't see no one in this draft class like that I would wait to pick a DE.
Pretty much agreed with this. I don't see DE as so much as a need as it is a position where the Patriots could use some depth. I would say Jarvis Jenkins or Lawrence Guy in the 3rd would be fine.
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Old 04-27-2011, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Pretty much agreed with this. I don't see DE as so much as a need as it is a position where the Patriots could use some depth. I would say Jarvis Jenkins or Lawrence Guy in the 3rd would be fine.
I don't want to sound like someone who "knows it all" but the vast majority of the year, the DEs were getting beat badly. They'd get knocked out of the play, unable to get any rush on the QB (which is a secondary goal... but isn't something that should be ignored) and in general were awful. TV Experts missed this badly. I am surprised to. It was quite obvious how badly Ron Brace played at times.

Ron Brace, Gerard Warren, Brandon Deaderick, and others are backups. Ty Warren and Wilfork are the only two legitimate starting DL on this team for a team of this caliber. I'm not saying we should have Haloti Ngata at DE as well, but let's help out or OLBs a bit. They were bad, but it's hard not to be when the DEs are retreating.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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I don't want to sound like someone who "knows it all" but the vast majority of the year, the DEs were getting beat badly. They'd get knocked out of the play, unable to get any rush on the QB (which is a secondary goal... but isn't something that should be ignored) and in general were awful. TV Experts missed this badly. I am surprised to. It was quite obvious how badly Ron Brace played at times.

Ron Brace, Gerard Warren, Brandon Deaderick, and others are backups. Ty Warren and Wilfork are the only two legitimate starting DL on this team for a team of this caliber. I'm not saying we should have Haloti Ngata at DE as well, but let's help out or OLBs a bit. They were bad, but it's hard not to be when the DEs are retreating.
Yeah I agree, the fact we had wilfork playing some end to help vs the run is pretty sad.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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DE absolutely is a need. BB has worked out all the top DEs... my feeling is we are gunna come out of tomorrow or Friday with one of them
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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I agree too, but DE imo is not as big a need as OLB, simply because of numbers. They only have 3 OLB's on the roster and two of those are at best backups and at worst should only be on special teams. At least they have some numbers on DE. With that said there are probably no OLB's in this draft that are worth taking in the first round. Jarvis Jenkins was mentioned. He is being very underrated. For a big guy he was making plays all over the field in the senior bowl. I'd take him in round 2 and would be thrilled to get him.
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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Todd McShay ----- " I think the patriots are going to trade to 9 to select cam jordan. i have heard from multiple sources about how infatuated they are with this player."
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by proshoota25 View Post
Todd McShay ----- " I think the patriots are going to trade to 9 to select cam jordan. i have heard from multiple sources about how infatuated they are with this player."
A few thoughts about that.
- I'd love to know who those multiple sources are.
- Not saying it won't happen but I just don't see the Pats ever getting "infatuated" with any players in a draft.
- They probably wouldn't need to trade up to get him.. or at least not that far.
- I do like Jordan and would be happy to see the Pats get him, but I'd be very disappointed if they had to give up picks in a trade and then spend a top 10 pick to get him. He's just not worth that.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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A few thoughts about that.
- I'd love to know who those multiple sources are.
- Not saying it won't happen but I just don't see the Pats ever getting "infatuated" with any players in a draft.
- They probably wouldn't need to trade up to get him.. or at least not that far.
- I do like Jordan and would be happy to see the Pats get him, but I'd be very disappointed if they had to give up picks in a trade and then spend a top 10 pick to get him. He's just not worth that.
Patriots are probably going to trade up to grab /someone/ from 17, then down from 28 to recoup their picks.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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They probably wouldn't need to trade up to get him.. or at least not that far.
If you want to talk internet rumors: Washington is also rumored to be infatuated with Cam Jordan - who has pick #10.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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I don't see any of those young guys as any more than depth. Ty is the only full time DE I see on our roster. Wright is great as a situational guy but is an immediate target for run audibles when he's in the game. G.Warren is not the answer and that means DE is a big need.

The biggest point of discord in our opinions is on the DEs available at 17 or 28. I see Cam Jordan, JJ Watt, Heyward and even Wilkerson as immediate upgrades over the talent we have as our LDE.

Jordan & Watt at 17 have pro-bowl potential without question in my mind. Heyward & Wilkerson at 28 (maybe 33) would be nice, if not.
If I'm not mistaken Gerard isn't with the team anymore unless we resign him whenever that becomes a possibility.

I agree that the biggest point of disagreement between me and pretty much everyone is in the evaluation of the DE players for 34. I'm not as high as everyone on Watt and Jordan, and I'm not as down on our guys as everyone. I didn't think Wright got beat up by other teams as much as he, and everyone else in our line for that matter, got tired and couldn't hold up through the game and season.

I actually believe Heyward and Wilkerson are way better prospects than Jordan and Watt, and they would definitely be an upgrade opposite Ty, but I think if we manage to get Aldon Smith or Ryan Kerrigan they would improve our team much more than the DE's.

I truly believe the young talent we have can be developed into good starters. Deaderick and Weston are heading into their second year only, dismissing them as back ups without giving them a chance to show improvement is just too hasty for me.
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