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Old 02-19-2012, 02:14 PM    (permalink
Jvig43
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
I'd love Landry, he can play that Harrison role back there and knock people's jocks off. Now all we need is to get Seymour back and get someone on the outside that can scare the QB.

Anyone heard from EE. After the last game he seemed pretty down in the dumps, as we all were. Hope he hasnt done anything rash.
He's taking a much needed break from the boards.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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Old 02-19-2012, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Mike Wallace may be an obvious target as the Steelers will either have to cut players, get tons of them to sign extensions that reduce cap numbers, or let him walk.

We could steal one of the Steelers main weapons.
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Old 02-19-2012, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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That'd be a dream scenario if we could steal Wallace.
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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So I started to go over what MJ and co. have done in BB's offseason thread and here is what I like and what I don't like.

Like:

Randy Moss Move- can't go wrong with a low offer for a guy who even with diminished speed brings something to the table that we don't have in our receiving corps.

Matt Light Trade- I probably would have outright released him, it's good to see you have the ingenuity to get something for him.

The idea of signing a 5 tech to the rotation- My favorite choice probably would have been Castillo on a mid-level deal because of his high upside, but I can't really complain too much with Langford. However, signing 2 just makes the whole rotation for those 3 spots that much more confusing. Pryor, Langford, Deaderick, Spears, and Brace competing for 2 spots is going to be tricky, and I don't know how much better any of those guys are over the other.

Also, did you tender an offer to Kyle Love?

Signing of Chris Carr- On a low end deal this is a very good move. Could be a PR/KR and a spot corner. I like it a lot.

Levoir- Nice Tackle depth, gives us a T in case Waters and Vollmer/Solder goes down and Cannon needs to play inside.

Resigns of certain guys to low/mid deals- Anderson, Connolly, and Branch are good deals + all of those guys should be in the mix to start.

Don't Like:

Signing Michael Griffin to an Elite Deal- I understand that there is a need at safety, but we massively overpayed for an average at best player. He's basically Brandon Meriweather without the legal problems, and is a feast or famine player who isn't going to bring the consistency we need in the secondary. I think there were better options to be had on the market like signing Yerimiah Bell, OJ Otogwe, or calling up the Cardinals or Raiders to see if they'd be interested in trading Adrian Wilson or Michael Huff. All would have been cheaper and the latter 2 are definitely better players.

Getting one of them cheaper might have given us the flexibility to go after another Quality/Elite Defensive free agent.

The Pu-Pu platter of Defensive Free Agents- You went very Belichickian and chose quantity over quality. Guys like Roth, Lawson, and Spears have been talked ad nauseum before, but every year we pass on bigger names who can contribute for a bunch of guys who're lesser players. If instead of getting Lawson and Roth you got Brooks I'd have liked the move a lot more. You take up 2 roster spots there for something you could have got with one guy.

Lack of major change at CB or WR- I like both Chris Carr and Randy Moss, but those guys are gambles whereas I think we need something to stabilize our performance outside the hashes. I would have liked to at least have seen at least a mid level guy at each of those positions like Tracy Porter or Laurent Robinson.

Not Sure if I missed it or not, but what happened with Andre Carter? If you didn't extend him a mid level offer I'd think it was a mistake.

I'm also interested in hearing about the trade you have in the works. If you could PM me the details, or about your future stategy in the later rounds and of the draft I'd love to hear it.

Also, kudos guys for doing this. It took a lot of research and thought and overall you did a pretty good job.

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Old 02-19-2012, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Andre Carter had a major knee injury and has had a very up and down career (year to year he looks like an entirely different person).

I wouldn't be shocked to see the Patriots let him walk.
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Old 02-19-2012, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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Andre Carter had a major knee injury and has had a very up and down career (year to year he looks like an entirely different person).

I wouldn't be shocked to see the Patriots let him walk.
It was a quad injury, and his career has been more consistent than most of the guys we signed in this hypothetical offseason. I'm also not sure it's a 100% lock that we return to a 3-4.

He's a "good" player, and I'm not sure I'd give Langford, Lawson, Roth, Anderson, or Spears that label yet though. It would be a mistake to at least not extend him a decent offer regardless of what system we go to.
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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Just read that Marcus Cannon will be considered as a tackle going forward, not as a guard. That really puts OG on the map in this draft. Kevin Zeitler suddenly became a real option for us at 48...
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Just read that Marcus Cannon will be considered as a tackle going forward, not as a guard. That really puts OG on the map in this draft. Kevin Zeitler suddenly became a real option for us at 48...
Yeah definitely but if Waters comes back BB may decide to think of it as more of a mid round need. Or alternatively, the Pats made use of Dan Connolly's terrific athleticism on pull blocks when he played OG and without a doubt the best OG prospect at pulling and blocking on the move could be had ten spots up in the first round in DeCastro.
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, DeCastro was my first thought. I just don't see BB selecting a guard in the top 20... Never going to happen. I like Connolly, but I don't think he has the strength needed. He's a great backup, but he's not a good starter. I want us to build an absolutely dominating OL so we can become a smash mouth football team in the twilight of Brady's career so he will have a chance of getting a ring or two more.
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, DeCastro was my first thought. I just don't see BB selecting a guard in the top 20... Never going to happen. I like Connolly, but I don't think he has the strength needed. He's a great backup, but he's not a good starter. I want us to build an absolutely dominating OL so we can become a smash mouth football team in the twilight of Brady's career so he will have a chance of getting a ring or two more.
Yeah Connolly's a better OC anyway. I am never against taking offensive linemen high in the draft. There is nothing worse than watching teams with a good pass rush absolutely dominate us. Our offensive line this year was pretty damn good. We lost the Superbowl because we didn't have any WRs who could make a play not because the amazing Giants pass rush
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. I just want to clarify that I wouldn't mind taking a guard in the top 20, I just don't think BB would ever do that. Getting DeCastro to play opposite of Mankins would be the sex..
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:09 PM    (permalink
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Just read that Marcus Cannon will be considered as a tackle going forward, not as a guard. That really puts OG on the map in this draft. Kevin Zeitler suddenly became a real option for us at 48...
That's either really good or really bad. I can't understand why he wouldn't be able to play guard, so I assume really good.

He's a 350+ lb tackle that really isn't overweight.
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-e...t-on-big-plays
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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You guys should go for Lloyd so you can use the extra draft pick for more defense. Lloyd already knows the offense and finally a competent qb.
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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You guys should go for Lloyd so you can use the extra draft pick for more defense. Lloyd already knows the offense and finally a competent qb.
This is the likely scenario that the Patriots choose and I personally would agree with it. I don't want to pay #1 WR money(even though Wallace is worth it) when we have a bunch of important contracts ending in the next two seasons.
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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That's either really good or really bad. I can't understand why he wouldn't be able to play guard, so I assume really good.

He's a 350+ lb tackle that really isn't overweight.
Im guessing that Vollmer's back injury is a serious concern going forward.
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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At least 2 of the 3 are possibly "free agents" (Mike Wallace will be a RFA, but the Steelers won't be able to match almost any contract)

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This is the likely scenario that the Patriots choose and I personally would agree with it. I don't want to pay #1 WR money(even though Wallace is worth it) when we have a bunch of important contracts ending in the next two seasons.
We're better off paying Wallace than Welker. While Welker has been a prototype for our offense, guys like him are fairly readily available.
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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At least 2 of the 3 are possibly "free agents" (Mike Wallace will be a RFA, but the Steelers won't be able to match almost any contract)
Not that we'll get any of them, we'll just go get a 30 something year old Loyld.
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Old 02-22-2012, 03:14 AM    (permalink
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NEPatriotsDraft's pre-Combine mock:

27. Fletcher Cox, DL, Mississippi State
31. Traded to the Bears for picks 50, 2nd rounder 2013, 5th rounder 2013
48. Casey Heyward, CB, Vanderbuilt
50. Cam Johnson, DE/OLB, Virginia
63. Marvin McNutt, WR, Iowa
68. Mitchell Schwartz, OL, Cal
94. Trumaine Johnson, DB, Montana
126. Tyrone Crawford, DE, Boise State
6th rounder: Chandler Harnish, QB, Northern Illinois

Pick 50 is the result of a trade with Chicago.
Picks 68 and the last pick (6th round) are sending the future 5th (Chicago... see above) and Brian Hoyer to Cleveland.

The Patriots are kind of thin on picks next year and will probably look to move back in the draft... duh. So, as much as we hate it, I have to admit it makes sense to make the moves we did. However, I seriously doubt the Browns trade for Brian Hoyer when they have Colt McCoy. Denver might make more sense.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:51 AM    (permalink
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Taking Mitchell Schwartz would mean the team probably isn't resigning Vollmer.

I would rather take a WR in the 4th. It is a deep draft for that position so double dipping would be recommended.
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jvig43 View Post
Not that we'll get any of them, we'll just go get a 30 something year old Loyld.
Not that I disagree that we should be after a younger WR, but I think you are selling Lloyd short. I have been very impressed with his career revival and don't think it's a speed thing that would see a huge decline in short order. His "compete level" has really been outstanding the last few seasons and I'd love to see him here.

EDIT: Personally, I'd love to see Ocho & Branch get the ax. Then sign Lloyd and a younger guy like Meachem or Manningham if they don't break the bank. If they do, then target guys like Harry Douglas, Early Doucet or Jerome Simpson. Another guy I'd love to see get a shot here is Derek Hagan. I liked what I saw out of him in limited snaps in Oakland but they have so much (under-developed) young talent at WR that he bacame a casualty. I wanted him last year when we clearly couldn't figure out how to manage a WR core and had cut everyone, only to end up with Tiquan ******* Underwood.
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:00 AM    (permalink
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Players I think the Patriots will target (the order is based on when I thought of the player):

1. David Decastro*, OG, Stanford
He plays RG at Stanford and the Patriots are going to probably need a RG this year. He's an 8.0 (BLESTO) grade kind of guy and would make an immediate impact on this team. Yes, the Patriots would have to trade up to get him, but he's the kind of guy you don't want a team like NE to have.

2. Michael Brockers*, DT, LSU
Michael Brockers is very raw but very very talented. If he had waited another year, he could be a top 5 lock. I wouldn't be shocked to see him go top 7-8 anyways. If he falls anywhere near NE, they need to immediately get on the phone and trade up. He may not be an elite DL this year, but he has 3 down potential for 10 years.

3. Dontari Poe*, DL, Memphis
6'5", 350 LB men do not grow on trees. Vince Wilfork is towards the end of his career and while Kyle Love is a good player, Dontari Poe could be a 2 gap beast. If NE wants to stay in a 43, they could have him as the other DT. If NE wants to play a 34, he could play NT while Wilfork plays DE. The Patriots may be concerned about his ability to play 3 downs at his size. This guy could be a Haloti Ngata-esque talent.

4. Kendall Wright*, WR, Baylor
It was obvious what the Patriots biggest need on the field (at least on offense) was and Kendall Wright is the perfect fit to fix that need. The only question is whether NE will see enough to put him on the field in the hurry up offense. He could be special though.

5. Cordy Glenn, OL, Georgia
While DeCastro is probably my #1 or #2 prospect for NE, Cordy Glenn is a very good OG prospect. Strong. Good athleticism. Long. Can get to the second level. Can pull. He may be more of a man blocker than a zone blocker, but I think his technique is correctable and he has the athleticism to play OG in a ZBS.

6. Michael Floyd*, WR, Notre Dame
I'm one of the bigger Michael Floyd fans, but I personally see a very strong comparison to Larry Fitzgerald. If he becomes anything like Larry, the Patriots are going to be sick on offense for a few more years (before Brady retires). I wish I could be in on the interviews to hear him, because I have a feeling I'd be banging the table for him after it. Remember when I said he was the #1 WR in this class (if he stays healthy).

7. Dont'a Hightower, LB, Alabama
Some Patriots fans will probably think we don't need another LB like Hightower because we have Spikes, Mayo, and Dane Fletcher but the reality is that Hightower can play OLB in a 34 and DE in a 43. As a matter of fact, if he's available at pick 31, I doubt NE even bothers trading the pick. This guy is a Bill Belichick wet dream. Big. Strong. Fast (according to most). Plays the edge. Smart. Technique may be a little under developed for a full time pass rusher. 6'4". 260. Can cover. There are definitely times where I am under-whelmed by Hightower and there are times when he absolutely explodes on tape.

8. Fletcher Cox, DL, Mississippi State
Fletcher Cox is my #2 rated DL for the Patriots (not including Poe whom is a NT) behind Brockers. He's quick off the line. He's strong. He's big. He's long. He's basically what NE looks for in their DE/DT prospects.

9. Janoris Jenkins, CB, Florida/North Alabama
Before you think I'm nuts, please remember, this guy shut down Julio Jones and AJ Green. He has elite talent. He's just a nut. I'm definitely going to kick the tires on a guy whom may fall into the second. I definitely could see NE wanting him in round 1 because he's the perfect NE corner. He can play 4 downs (KR/PR). He's great in a zone. He's great man to man. He's a top 3 corner in this class. BLESTO grade of 7.5XM (X = Off Field Issues, M = Mentally unstable) Comparison's between him and Asante Samuel are pretty obvious.

10. Whitney Mercilus, DE/OLB, Illinois
I was tempted to put him in round 2, because I don't think NE will target him in round 1, but Mercilus has the ability to play the run and a freakish amount of athleticism that was used in Illinois in very 'creative' ways (read: lots of blitzing with him coming free). I am concerned he may be either a 1 year wonder or a guy without an NFL position, but he showed too much talent last year to not be on this list.

11. Melvin Ingram, DE/OLB, South Carolina
I've seen a few South Carolina Games and one guy that just jumps off the tape is Melvin Ingram. He makes freakish plays sometimes. The biggest question with him is whether he's a DE/OLB or a Nickel UT or something else. He's a tad undersized for NE, but he makes plays.

----------- End of Day 1 ----------
12. Kelechi Osemele, OL, Iowa State
13. Cam Johnson, DE/OLB, Virginia
If there is one guy that I will predict the Patriots draft, it is Cam Johnson. While Cam will not wow anyone with his excessive athleticism, he is exactly what the Patriots want at OLB. His pass rush repertoire isn't as good as it needs to be, but he's a guy who should get 8-10 sacks per year. He holds the edge well. His coverage drills could make him fly up NE's boards.

14. Casey Hayward, CB, Vanderbilt
15. Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame
16. George Iloka, S, Boise State
17. Doug Martin, RB, Boise State
Doug Martin will be a steal for some team. This kid is a very similar player to Ray Rice and jumps on every Boise State tape I can get a hold of.

18. Brandon Boykin, CB, Georgia
19. Stephon Gilmore, CB, South Carolina
20. Joe Adams, WR, Arkansas
21. Marvin McNutt, WR, Iowa
Marvin McNutt is the kind of WR that will probably never be a #1, but is a very good #2. He is a former QB (played WR for 2 years). He just understands how to get open and does it. Has great hands and routinely catches passes that are less than perfect. Not going to wow anyone athletically, but has enough to be good in the NFL. I think NE passes on a first round guy for a guy like McNutt.

22. Ben Jones, C, Georgia
With Brian Waters being 35 before the season starts, there will be some concern about him retiring or regressing. We could see Dan Connolly at RG and Ben Jones at Center. Same with Michael Brewster.

23. Markelle Martin, S, Oklahoma State
24. Michael Brewster, C, Ohio State
Michael Brewster is a seemingly long forgotten prospect. He has a lot of talent but has struggled with consistency. His technique is a bit raw, but Dante can correct it and I personally think he has quite a bit of upside as a center prospect.

I'm probably missing a ton, but these are the ones that came to me.

Players I am personally interested in are in bold.
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Old 02-23-2012, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Not a bad list. A few things I think about it though

I want nothing of Poe. He has huge upside but has one of the biggest bust potentials in the draft. He simply doesn't play like a guy who is 350lbs. Doesn't dominate the line of scrimmage, doesn't have the ability to anchor against the run and too often gets single blocked. Plus Wilfork is playing the best he ever has and Kyle Love was pretty damn good last year. this would be a luxury pick on a guy who has a long way to go if he wants to pan out.

I agree about DeCastro being number 1 on the board. If he gets within reaching distance I think it's a no brainer.

Next I would have Kendall Wright and Michael Floyd.

I love Fletcher Cox but I don't think he's a good system fit. Brockers and Still would be my top 2 defensive linemen
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Old 02-23-2012, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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I think that the Patriots will rate the players they want like this:

1. DeCastro
2. Brockers
3. Reuben Randle
4. Kendall Wright
5. Dre Kirkpatrick
6. Peter Konz
7. Mark Barron
8. Janoris Jenkins
9. Michael Floyd

Just of the top of my head.... Also, these are players that are theoretically within reach.
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Old 02-23-2012, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
I think that the Patriots will rate the players they want like this:

1. DeCastro
2. Brockers
3. Reuben Randle
4. Kendall Wright
5. Dre Kirkpatrick
6. Peter Konz
7. Mark Barron
8. Janoris Jenkins
9. Michael Floyd

Just of the top of my head.... Also, these are players that are theoretically within reach.
I gotta ask because I'm just not seeing it. What is it about Randle that makes you rate him so highly? I get that he has tons of athleticism and the fact that he has only played WR 3 years means his potential is untapped, but I honestly don't see what makes him a first round prospect.

All NFL players are athletes. The best get by doing the little things well. Running crisp routes, using head fakes, stemming their route at the top before their break, shielding the defender from the ball, anticipating with the QB, knowing how to find the soft spot in zones. Randle doesn't show me that he can do these consistently.

I like his size/speed ratio and his upside but he is a huge gamble in the first round
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