New England Patriots Discussion - Page 338

Jvig43 · 03-11-2012, 02:34 PM

Yeah I really don't want any Patriots on the cover of Madden.

Matthew Jones · 03-11-2012, 03:59 PM

To: Belichiclause
From: Matthew Jones

I know you're very busy scheming up schemes, but please sign some of these players. Thank you!

Free Agent Wishlist

FB Mike Tolbert (Chargers)
WR Ted Ginn Jr. (49ers)
WR Brandon Lloyd (Broncos)
WR Robert Meachem (Saints)
DT Adam Carriker (Redskins)
DT Luis Castillo (Chargers)
DT Kendall Langford (Dolphins)
DE Matt Roth (Jaguars)
LB Manny Lawson (Bengals)
LB Kamerion Wimbley (Raiders)
FS Jim Leonhard (Jets)

Don Vito · 03-11-2012, 05:16 PM

I could definitely see us picking up either Langford or Carriker. Tolbert would be a nice fit, he has some versatility but I don't think we're going to add a FA RB.

nepg · 03-11-2012, 06:23 PM

There are maybe 3 guys on that list that I would be OK with...

cmarq83 · 03-11-2012, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

To: Belichiclause
From: Matthew Jones

I know you're very busy scheming up schemes, but please sign some of these players. Thank you!

Free Agent Wishlist

FB Mike Tolbert (Chargers)
WR Ted Ginn Jr. (49ers)
WR Brandon Lloyd (Broncos)
WR Robert Meachem (Saints)
DT Adam Carriker (Redskins)
DT Luis Castillo (Chargers)
DT Kendall Langford (Dolphins)
DE Matt Roth (Jaguars)
LB Manny Lawson (Bengals)
LB Kamerion Wimbley (Raiders)
FS Jim Leonhard (Jets)

I think we've speculated on Roth, Lawson, and Carriker enough in the past. BB wasn't interested then, and I don't think that will change now. Plus, I'm not to crazy about going from mediocre players in a 4-3 to mediocre players in a 3-4. Instead of adding more mediocre starters like any of those guys I'd rather stick with some known commodities like Anderson and Carter and give our young DT's like Love, Deaderick, and Pryor more time to develop. Obviously looking to add more front 7 talent in the draft as well.

I don't think Tolbert is really what we'd be looking for as a RB fill in. I think Ronnie Brown and Joseph Addai both fit the bill more as consistent multi-threat backs who could simultaneously fill the role of Kevin Faulk and BJGE.

Obviously either Lloyd or Meachem would be appreciated at the right price.

I like Ginn too because of the return value, but he doesn't offer much as a receiver.

Leonard is an interesting case too. Obviously he's a guy I'd like to have as a 3rd guy who can sub in when you need some consistency out there, but he has some problems matching up with bigger guys and is an injury nightmare. Everything I just said would apply to a guy like Melvin Bullet too.

BradysKnee · 03-11-2012, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

There are maybe 3 guys on that list that I would be OK with...

Yeah all bargain basement guys with little to no upside.

Matthew Jones · 03-12-2012, 12:53 AM

Building through free agency is generally a bad idea. Teams like the Packers and Steelers never sign anyone there, and they're consistently contenders. On the other hand, look at recent spenders such as Philadelphia, the Jets, Washington, and Oakland to see what happens when you try to buy championships. Rookies are so much cheaper nowadays than veterans and the market is getting out of control at almost every position. Signing a handful of low-cost guys and trying to get a couple of Carter/Anderson types each year is a nice compliment to the draft. Blowing your financial load on one guy usually isn't the best idea.

Razor · 03-12-2012, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

Building through free agency is generally a bad idea. Teams like the Packers and Steelers never sign anyone there, and they're consistently contenders. On the other hand, look at recent spenders such as Philadelphia, the Jets, Washington, and Oakland to see what happens when you try to buy championships. Rookies are so much cheaper nowadays than veterans and the market is getting out of control at almost every position. Signing a handful of low-cost guys and trying to get a couple of Carter/Anderson types each year is a nice compliment to the draft. Blowing your financial load on one guy usually isn't the best idea.

The problem with the teams that you mention here is that they didn't have the core players in place for them to be contenders. The Patriots do. We have lots of depth players, what we need now are impact players to take us to the next level. Imagine if we had a deep threat or a dominant pass rusher last season. Our secondary wouldn't have given up a million yards every game and Brady would've had a lot more time on the field than on the sidelines. A deep threat would've allowed our running game to be a factor and of course allowed WW, Gronk and Hernandez to create more after the catch. I think adding two players can make a good team great and that's what we need right now. Making splashes in FA doesn't mean that you're building through FA. You don't have to give up a boatload of draft picks this years to acquire impact players, and that's a rarity.

Matthew Jones · 03-12-2012, 06:39 AM

I would consider Brandon Lloyd one of the premier deep threats in the NFL. He is one of the league leaders in receptions of 20 yards or more over the past few seasons and already has an understanding of Josh McDaniels' offense, which has led to some incredibly productive seasons despite less-than-ideal quarterback situations. He may not have the upside of Wallace but the cost would also be substantially lower (both in terms of his contract and not having to swap a first-round pick.)

Razor · 03-12-2012, 06:43 AM

I'm not sure the cost would be substantially lower. Lloyd went on the record last week saying that he thinks he needs to be paid as one of the top receivers in the league. How the **** did he figure that out? He's a good receiver who found a system that he thrives in. That doesn't mean you're among the best in the league at your position, especially since he was **** for three teams prior to joining the Broncos. I really don't want to pay Lloyd much since I think he's a risk in all ways imaginable. If he comes here on a cheap deal I'm fine with it. If he wants more than that I think he can go **** himself and rape another team's salary cap.

cmarq83 · 03-12-2012, 10:06 AM

I'm with Razor on this one. The problems the Patriots have are issues that they've been trying and failing at addressing through the draft for years. We have fundamental problems with Wide Receivers who can go deep, Pass Rushers, and in the secondary.

Using the method MJ described has led us down the path of Jermaine Cunningham, Shawn Crable, Taylor Price, Brandon Tate, Darius Butler, Terrance Wheatley, Brandon Meriweather, Shawn Springs, Chad Ochocinco, Albert Haynesworth, James Ihedigbo, Joey Galloway, and co. At a point you need to get rid of some position coaches and some scouts, but you might need to bite the bullet and sign someone who you know will be successful at a certain point.

We're not the Eagles we have unique players at some of the hardest positions to fill in football including QB, OL, MLB, and NT. Not to mention 2 of the most unique offensive weapons with Gronk and Hernandez. If we could turn one of our weaknesses into our strength then we could concentrate some of our draft into certain positions ala 2010, but right now the needs are too numerous and we can't rely on rookies to fill huge holes on a SB caliber team.

I don't always advocate big moves in free agency. Hell last season I was with you and wanted Lawson, Roth, Brian Thomas, and Damien Woody, but this season with cap space, a ton of dead money coming free next year, and a new CBA raising the cap there isn't really a reason to be overly frugal. Plus, when you have 2 first round draft picks and young Pro Bowl caliber talent at your positions of need available in RFA from your principle rivals who're unable to meet certain offers, why not go for it?

Razor · 03-12-2012, 11:40 AM

One receiver that I haven't heard much about this off season is Josh Morgan from the 49ers. If I had to describe him using only one word it'd be "solid". He runs good routes, has good hands, adequate speed, is a solid runblocker and is able to create something with the ball in his hands. He was supposed to be the 49ers' second receiver after Crabtree, but ended up being better than him for the last couple of years. He got injured this past season but is back at full health and should be obtainable at a fair price, although the 49ers will probably do a lot to keep him. He's extremely underrated and a complete receiver, although he'll never be confused for Calvin Johnson.

nepg · 03-12-2012, 11:44 AM

The needs aren't all that numerous. Pass rusher, WR, safety, and a defensive lineman. That's it. Shouldn't have any problems finding those guys in the first two rounds. The needs have been the same since the beginning of the season until now.

Razor · 03-12-2012, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

The needs aren't all that numerous. Pass rusher, WR, safety, and a defensive lineman. That's it. Shouldn't have any problems finding those guys in the first two rounds. The needs have been the same since the beginning of the season until now.

You forgot about center. We currently don't have a center under contract for next year. I'd love to see Konz or even Zeitler playing center for us for the next ten years or so.

nepg · 03-12-2012, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

You forgot about center. We currently don't have a center under contract for next year. I'd love to see Konz or even Zeitler playing center for us for the next ten years or so.

Connolly or Wendell (pref. both). Both were very good in 2011 and were part of the best OL in football. Wendell is only 25.

Razor · 03-12-2012, 12:07 PM

Connolly is a FA iirc and Wendell looked much better at guard than at center imo, but wasn't impressive at either spot..

Matthew Jones · 03-13-2012, 01:40 AM

Adam Caplan reporting that Mario Williams will command between $45-50 million. Guaranteed.

Vaylor · 03-13-2012, 05:03 AM

Sounds about right. He was never an option for the Patriots unless he was willing to take a deal similar to his rookie salary.

Razor · 03-13-2012, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones

Adam Caplan reporting that Mario Williams will command between $45-50 million. Guaranteed.

I've heard figures between $60 and $70 mil. guaranteed, so this just made him all the more attractive to me. Like cmarq83 said, we have a lot of cap space committed to dead money which will clear up next year. We also have quite a lot cap space this year so we can afford him. The question is: Is BB finally willing to compromise with his own methods/values in order to give Brady a chance to win another SB? The window isn't closed, but it is closing faster than I'd like it to. Preparing for the

Jvig43 · 03-13-2012, 09:12 AM

What time does free agency start today?

FlyingElvis · 03-13-2012, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

What time does free agency start today?

4pm

ryno626 · 03-13-2012, 10:44 AM

Pats to make run at Red Bryant

Jvig43 · 03-13-2012, 12:12 PM

Mario williams is a free agent? Better go after Bryant.

FlyingElvis · 03-13-2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

I'm not sure the cost would be substantially lower. Lloyd went on the record last week saying that he thinks he needs to be paid as one of the top receivers in the league. How the **** did he figure that out? He's a good receiver who found a system that he thrives in. That doesn't mean you're among the best in the league at your position, especially since he was **** for three teams prior to joining the Broncos. I really don't want to pay Lloyd much since I think he's a risk in all ways imaginable. If he comes here on a cheap deal I'm fine with it. If he wants more than that I think he can go **** himself and rape another team's salary cap.

I'm not sure this is accurate, unless I missed the article you saw. From the one I saw, Lloyd was saying money is important and he feels he has earned the contract levels of a good WR. Nothing I read inlcuded mention of, say, "top 5" or anything that drastic. He absolutely deserves a deal along the lines of what Colston just received (~$5M per year) and I would have no problem w/NE paying him that.

EDIT: scratch that . . . Colston is 5/$40 so it's more like $8 per year. Backloaded (cap issues) though so who knows what the actual figures will be. He could easily be in the $5 per year range until the last season (that he'll never see.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

Mario williams is a free agent? Better go after Bryant.

I'm pretty sure there's a meme or '**** yeah' type image that should be included with this post.

Razor · 03-13-2012, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingElvis

I'm not sure this is accurate, unless I missed the article you saw. From the one I saw, Lloyd was saying money is important and he feels he has earned the contract levels of a good WR. Nothing I read inlcuded mention of, say, "top 5" or anything that drastic. He absolutely deserves a deal along the lines of what Colston just received (~$5M per year) and I would have no problem w/NE paying him that.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-e...n-boston-radio

Quote:

On if he deserves to be lumped in with the best players at his position: "Definitely. I do need to be lumped in with the best players in my position."

There you have it. I have no interest in paying that man $5+ per year.