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Old 09-15-2013, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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Man. So, Brady going to be asking for a trade soon?
I keed, I keed.

I think Donte Stallworth is a FA. Hell even Moss (maybe he can help the young guys.) Really don't know what we can do, aside from commiserate with Steeler fans.
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Barring an even worse performance against the Buccaneers, I think we'll give it until at least post-Atlanta before doing anything major. To an extent, it's healthy to get these struggles out earlier in the year in order to get the best from these guys later. This is the bed we made for ourselves, pure and simple. Can't say I'm terribly happy about potentially wasting a year of Brady's window, but this is what you get when you can't develop receivers. At a certain point, the **** hits the fan. When you've got a historically good quarterback, every year you aren't in position to win the whole thing should be considered a failure.

...and yes, there is a window. Mallet has done nothing to in camp or the pre-season to make it look like he's capable of leading a franchise, let alone leading a contending franchise. Brady will still be here when his contract is up and he likely won't even want to re-sign here(if he's even still around) anyway.

We've got three to five years to win another Super Bowl before we've got to make some major changes. The defensive rebuild looks like it's finally starting to come together. The problem is that it took about that long. That can't be the case on offense. I don't think it will be since we're already starting ahead by having a guy like Brady, but yeah.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:14 AM    (permalink
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Stolen from a different forum:

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Old 09-16-2013, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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I'll post some of my thoughts on the status of the team a bit later once I'm out of work, but I came up with another potential trade target.

What would you guys think about Sudfeld and a 6th for Zach Miller. He has a $6.8 million base salary this year, and very few teams besides the Pats can afford to take that on. He's going to be a cap casualty at the end of the year most likely, and Sudfeld would provide them with a young cheap option, while giving the Seahawks some cash to get an extension done with Browner or Tate or whomever they're trying to retain for next year.

Miller isn't utilized as much as he could be in Seattle, and there probably wouldn't be a substantial drop off from him to McCoy for them. He'd be a great asset for us as a reliable possession guy to help stabilize our receiving core until potentially everyone can come back. What do you guys think?
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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I've always liked Miller's game. Not flashy but he is the kind of guy who Brady would love to throw to. He is consistent and would be able to provide us something resembling a steady target, he could still be valuable when Gronk comes back. Wouldn't be a dynamic #2 TE like Hernandez, but he could be a reliable option.
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Old 09-16-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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I like the idea. Very creative. A consistent, reliable option would certainly be welcome.
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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It'd be nice, but is he even on the block? I know his name was in the rumor mill some during OTA/Camp but though Pete said they had no intention of moving Miller and would use him more. It seems too low a price, even if the Seahawks don't use him well. (I still am baffled by his decision to sign there.)

Also, he goes down in cap hit in each of the next two seasons. ($4.8M then 2.8M)
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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It'd be nice, but is he even on the block? I know his name was in the rumor mill some during OTA/Camp but though Pete said they had no intention of moving Miller and would use him more. It seems too low a price, even if the Seahawks don't use him well. (I still am baffled by his decision to sign there.)

Also, he goes down in cap hit in each of the next two seasons. ($4.8M then 2.8M)
Those are his base salaries. His cap hits are 7 and 6 million respectively, with $5-6 million to be saved if they get rid of him. That is way too much for a talented team to pay a blocking TE. Still I didn't realize McCoy tore his Achilles. Without a decent backup I guess it doesn't make sense for a playoff team to bail on a starter. It probably puts a damper on that. It's just tough because there isn't a whole lot out there.

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Old 09-16-2013, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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Oh, right. I didn't factor in the bonus. Derp.
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Old 09-16-2013, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure I want to give Sudfeld up for a rental at tight end yet. Miller is a pretty good player, but I'm not sure he makes a big enough impact for us over the course of the season to make it worth it. Sudfeld has regressed quite a bit as the things have gone along and there's obviously the injury issues that caused him to go undrafted in the first place...but I think whatever contributions he may put up and a sixth round pick are at least as valuable as Miller would be if Gronk can get back healthy. Should face a lot of single coverage(or no coverage) against small and slower guys at that point. There's obviously no good way of telling if Gronk will continue to have issues, but if he does get injured again, I would make that deal in a heartbeat.

I'm not the biggest Miller guy though. He hasn't been used like he was in Oakland in Seattle, but to me it looks like he just may not have it anymore. Let's not forget that those Raiders numbers he made his name on were a little inflated as well. There really wasn't anyone else on those teams capable of catching a football.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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God Ive missed EE, but yeah I'm pretty much with him. I don't love Miller and Sudfeld could develop into a much better player for us down the road than what Miller offers.

Also Dennard could be facing jail time as soon as december 5th. Yikes.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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God Ive missed EE, but yeah I'm pretty much with him. I don't love Miller and Sudfeld could develop into a much better player for us down the road than what Miller offers.

Also Dennard could be facing jail time as soon as december 5th. Yikes.
Eh, I like Sudfeld a lot, but I don't think he has upside much better than Miller. Miller is a pretty accomplished blocker, and a reliable target in the passing game. Best case scenario that's pretty much the best we can hope for from Sudfeld. He's not a gamebreaking athlete by any means, and he's pretty much like most starting caliber TE's in the league.

I think it's a question of our needs now vs. what we can possibly have later. For me we need 1 more guy regardless of who comes back. I think Miller or a Miller equivalent is adequate. I'd easily flip a developmental player like Sudfeld for a guy who can contribute right away. It's just the circumstance we're in right now.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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Also it got kind of lost in the awful performance of Dobson but Hoomanawanui and Develin were pretty bad last week. I saw both of them get beat multiple times in the run game, and both contributed nothing in the pass game despite getting 60 and 28 snaps respectively.

Without any real #1, 2, or 3 receivers we need everybody to contribute. McDaniels needs simplify our gameplan for everyone. Find a couple of plays for each player to focus on, and run well. Really nobody stands out among this group, and absolutely nobody should get over 10 targets. We need 7 or 8 guys to contribute not 3. Let everybody play to their strengths and throw out different positional groupings. We need to be creative. Not just run a couple of option routes and throw a 3 yard out to Julian Edelman if nobody can get open.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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I might be a little biased since I was at some of those training camp practices when Sudfeld was going well, but I think he's got a lot of upside in the passing game. There's little doubt Miller is the more well rounded player and offers more right now, but I think Sudfeld could eventually put up some decent yardage totals as a running mate to Gronk. He just generates easy separation from linebackers. Pretty good catch radius too.

He's certainly not a sure thing though. We're all aware that Taylor Price got rave reviews form the writers and was a pretty good pre-season player as well. Sudfeld didn't even really show up in the second half of the pre-season games....and then there's the medical history.

I don't know though, I really saw some flashes. We are clearly are in need of production from somewhere right now....I would just want a little bit more than a guy like Miller if we're trading a player and a pick.


Anywho, Pats Pulpit published a list of free agent wide receivers the other day. I think it pretty much confirms what we already knew; the picking are extremely slim.

Here's the list.



Collie, Breaston, and Stallworth are probably the obvious choices for me. Collie and Breaston are the best system fits are serve up the closest thing to what we're looking for. Stallworth knows the system, but I'm not sure that he offers the high percentage/low risk throws we're missing right now. Gilyard is a name too, but he's looking at his sixth team and has yet to establish himself.

For those who think think there's nothing wrong, we've confirmed kicked the tires on Brandon Lloyd. He declined.

Still think we wait until at leas the Atlanta game before doing anything major, but that's where that stands right now.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I would think Collie would be a slam dunk as well. I don't think he's capable of staying healthy, but we only need him for a short while.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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...I would feel pretty bad if someone made scrambled eggs with his brain again though. If we do sign him, he has the potential to be targeted a ton. Edelman will likely tweak or break something if his history is any indication and Amendola may not be ready for another month or two. Doesn't bode particularly well with his concussion history, but I guess that's his risk to take.

Mike Thomas and Gaffney could be targets as too....although less likely. If we wanted Gaffney, he would be here. I liked Thomas coming out of college and he's showed some things, but it was with some pretty bad Jaguars teams that felt he was expendable in the end.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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Man there are so many guys on that list that I would love but I know the Pats aren't going to sign any of them. David Nelson is nice in theory but I have no idea what the status of his ACL is. I've been a fan of Ronald Johnson since he was in high school. He is crazy fast and I always wondered what he would look like if he was given a chance to play. Same goes for Terrance Tolliver.

In terms of established guys Devin Aromashodu did a pretty good job at times filling in for the Vikings when they were weak at WR. The same goes for Massaquoi when he was with the Browns. Devery Henderson intrigues me as a guy who they might actually sign because he's a veteran and I'm sure he's smart enough to understand what Brady and Belichick want.

That list is solid though, I'd take a lot of those guys if I had the chance to sign them.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:29 PM    (permalink
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Johnson and Tolliver were two of the more intriguing guys from a pure talent perspective, but I think they would need some time in the oven before making an impact. Not ideal for a mid-season signing, IMO. Especially Tolliver. Super raw coming out and hasn't seemed to develop a whole ton since. Very good height/weight/speed guy though.

Henderson has to be higher on the list of possibilities as well. He's made high level contributions with a top flight offense/quarterback before.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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So I know someone previously alluded to it, and I'm not really a super big fan of it, but Kenny Britt has been benched and has spoken publicly about being done in Ten. Could be a likely trade candidate, not sure we bite and not sure I want us to. I just dont want to see what happened last week happen.....ever.....again.....ever.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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Britt is uber talented, but there's clearly baggage. He's had something like ten encounters with police since he's been drafted. We might be able to pick him up for a bargain price, but I'm just not sure making a move for a guy with his kind of reputation would put us in a very tenable position PR wise.

It would be a pretty decent get in a vacuum though....and we're certainly not shy about bringing in guys with questions.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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I love Britt's game when he is healthy and not in trouble. I personally would welcome the addition, but given the recent Hernandez situation I can't see it happening. The amount of times Britt has been in the news for being an idiot since he has been in the NFL defies logic.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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I would love the Britt move, it kind of reminds me of the Talib situation last year. The Pats were thin at secondary and gave up a draft pick for a player who people said had character issues and was a bad guy. Of course, that was before the Aaron Hernandez situation.

But I would love to get Britt because he would be have an above average QB for the first time in his career. Talib came into a more stable situation than the one he was in and thrived in a new atmosphere. I bet Britt would do the same. Although I've heard stories and he seems to be incredibly stupid and I don't know if he's too stupid to the point where it's not worth taking a shot.
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Old 09-18-2013, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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How does everyone see the TB game?
I did see some of the Saints-TB game, and their defense looks pretty good. I don't foresee much success in the running game. I think the uptempo should work well given their lack of depth, but can our rookies handle it? I'm hoping Josh simplifies the offense - that should give the receivers more confidence, and it's important for Brady to get into a rhythm. Offensively for TB, Freeman is playing poorly, but Martin is terrific. Vjax always gives up problems, too.

Still, I expect a low scoring affair, maybe 17-13 Pats, but I'd not be surprised if TB pulls one out.

The next three after this are all tough (Falcons, Bengals and Saints) but at least Gronk should be back starting with the Atlanta game.
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Old 09-18-2013, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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I think they're capable of beating us. That defense is playing well early in the year and the line has the potential to get after Brady a little bit. Losing Goldson probably hurts them a bit, but we're exactly the kind of team you want to deal with an injury to a starter in your secondary right now. Revis on Dobson, Thompkins, or Edelman is going to be absolutely hilarious. Even on a knee and a half, whoever he's on we'll see next week. Saints put up some yards on them, but they do that to everyone and they're a much more efficient unit than we are at this time. Hopefully we can get something going with the run, but in the bizarre alternative universe we're in, their front seven will likely be daring us to complete passes.

They're a mess on offense right now too though. The Freeman situation seems to be a throw or two away from going nuclear. Martin and VJax scare me a little bit, but I think we commit to stopping Martin and see if Freeman can complete enough throws down the field to hurt us. Not sure that he can.

Probably another ugly game. I think we probably pull away in part because of their offensive turmoil runs a degree or two deeper than ours does....but it's hardly a slam dunk.


...that changes a little bit if Gronk plays. Some rumblings that there's a chance there. With how much we're going to need to lean on him, I really don't hope we rush him back. As has been discussed prior, back injuries end football careers if they aren't managed correctly. We all saw how long it took Vollmer to get back from that and the ups and down that came with it. If it were up to me, I would let him recover until he's absolutely ready to go.
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Old 09-18-2013, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Totally agree on Gronk. If we make a playoff run, we absolutely need him (and into the future, obviously.) By the way, Goldson's suspension was 'reduced' to 100k penalty instead, so he's playing.

But yeah, another ugly game. Hopefully we see some improvement from the Jets game.
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