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View Poll Results: champ or deion
champ 49 33.11%
deion 99 66.89%
Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-30-2007, 01:24 AM    (permalink
reese
 
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Originally Posted by JeffSamardzijaIRISH View Post
Deion has 2 SB's, 2, yes 2, nicknames, 9 KR TD's, 53 career INT's which 9 were taken for a TD, and this man even played on offense, and has his number retired for FSU. Champ can't even begin to touch Neon Deion.
u cant compare stats when champ has been in for 9 years and deion played 15
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:34 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by skinzzfan25 View Post
I think a few years back in the Pro Bowl he just got edged out by Deangelo Hall (maybe, but I'm pretty sure it was a falcon) Hall is a fast dude, and Green is over 40 now.
I was at that fastest man competition and he came in 4th out of 5 people only beating Aman Green. Rossum, Hall and Steve Smith all torched him... But he held his own for not playing anymore..
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:53 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by reese View Post
i would expect u to kno better then to bring up the fact that he got beat...of course he did...who doesnt get beat sometimes...deion got beat...peyton throws picks....LT fumbles...chad johnson drops passes..every player no matter how good they are isnt perfect...and i kno u kno this so why make the statement u made
This is a lie...LT does not fumble...he voluntarily gives the ball to the other team when he's feeling generous...Don't confuse it with fumbling ;)
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Old 05-30-2007, 04:12 AM    (permalink
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I loved Deion's quote...

Random Sideline Reporter Chick: Why don't you stretch before playing?
Deion: Does a cheetah stretch before it kills its prey?

Money...
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Old 05-30-2007, 04:33 AM    (permalink
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I think it would be tough to find a guy within the NFL circle who would tell you that Champ is the better player. Among those who's knowledge of the game is sufficient to form a valid opinion, I would assume Deion is damn near unanimously regarded as the greatest shutdown corner of all time. Love Champ's game, but he's not even in the conversation at this point.
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Old 05-30-2007, 06:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by duckseason View Post
I think it would be tough to find a guy within the NFL circle who would tell you that Champ is the better player. Among those who's knowledge of the game is sufficient to form a valid opinion, I would assume Deion is damn near unanimously regarded as the greatest shutdown corner of all time. Love Champ's game, but he's not even in the conversation at this point.
Exactly. The only thing in which Champ Bailey is better than Deion is tackling. Deion was the best shutdown corner of all time, one of the biggest defensive playmaker of all time, and he was primetime. Champ contribution comes only on defense, Deion excelled on ST, and he started some games even on offense. Not to forget Deion played baseball too...
Bailey's name doesn't belong near Deion's name.
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Old 05-30-2007, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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this is an utterly ridiculous argument. even assuming that they'd played a similar amount of time, they played in VASTLY different eras in terms of guarding the receiver. is it any coincidence that bailey had his worst year the year the league focused on cornerback contact? i wonder if deion was better because, in the era he played in, he could more effectively "mug" a receiver without worrying about getting a call? or gosh, maybe the receiving talent is completely different (not better or worse) in the two eras, making comparison difficult.

regardless, anyone making "enough said" comments has no business taking part in any rational discussion. was deion better? i think so, but to act as if there was nothing about the era he played in that may have helped him look better is ridiculous.

further, for whichever one of you actually quoted RETURN statistics, keep in mind this is an argument about CORNERBACKS. return numbers have little to do with a man's ability to cover a receiver. let's try to keep up and not look stupid, ok? i mean, we won't even get into the stupidity of bring up that he played offense or an accomplishment from his college career.
Yeah, good points. I think that is the case any time you compare 2 players from different eras. You really have to use your imagination to figure out how each player would have fared in each other's shoes. It's like when people come in and say that Jim Brown was the greatest RB ever. "And it's not even close." I really don't think it's fair to compare players from different eras. Hell, even comparing players in the same era from different teams is extremely difficult because of the nature of the game. Some teams make things easier on their LB's. Some teams run a scheme that will produce huge numbers for the TE. I mean, what would Daunte Culpepper's career look like if the Bengals had chosen him instead of Akili Smith? Better or worse, I have no doubt it would be different. Now, there's no doubt in my mind that guys like Champ and Deion would be great corners regardless of the team they played for. So I'm not sure what my point is here. Oh yeah, I was agreeing with njx about comparing players from different eras, and just wanted to take that a step further. I guess it all boils down to the fact that there are endless factors to consider when comparing players in the NFL, and that the final equation is almost always a product of only a handful of those considerations. It's not tennis or golf, or even basketball or baseball. This is the ultimate team game, and guys rarely stand alone in their efforts. How would Thomas Jones have fared if he had dropped to the 19th pick in '00? And what if Shaun Alexander had went to Arizona at #7?

Anyway, I stand by my earlier comment about Deion's reputation. It'll be tough for any corner to reach his level of eminence. Somebody could be better, but to overtake Deion's tremendous reputation will take more than that. (imo)
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Old 05-30-2007, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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I'd still take Rod Woodson over both.

IMO Woodson was the best D-Back of this generation.
I agree. In his prime, Woodson was a beast.
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Old 05-30-2007, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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Champ I think will go down as one of the best CB's to ever play the game. His awareness is just out of this world. Deion is still the best cover corner though.
I mean, Champ right now has 39 interceptions. Probably 4 more years or so at CB, getting about 5 picks a year at least, and he ends up with 59 interceptions. Probably will be in the 60's though. Also, you need to take into account he comes up with big plays when they are needed. At least half of his interceptions last year were inside the 5 yard line, taking away points from the opposition. I also love his tackling. Could Deion tackle Priest Holmes, LT, Larry Johnson 1 on 1?
And btw, Champ SHUT DOWN Chad Johnson last year in the rematch. He had a rough year when they introduced the new rules, but has completely dominated really since then IMO.
But, this is like comparing Jerry Rice to Marvin Harrison/Terrell Owens IMO
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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Champ I think will go down as one of the best CB's to ever play the game. His awareness is just out of this world. Deion is still the best cover corner though.
I mean, Champ right now has 39 interceptions. Probably 4 more years or so at CB, getting about 5 picks a year at least, and he ends up with 59 interceptions. Probably will be in the 60's though. Also, you need to take into account he comes up with big plays when they are needed. At least half of his interceptions last year were inside the 5 yard line, taking away points from the opposition. I also love his tackling. Could Deion tackle Priest Holmes, LT, Larry Johnson 1 on 1?
And btw, Champ SHUT DOWN Chad Johnson last year in the rematch. He had a rough year when they introduced the new rules, but has completely dominated really since then IMO.
But, this is like comparing Jerry Rice to Marvin Harrison/Terrell Owens IMO
If we had a poll for that it would be Jerry Rice in a shutout.
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Old 05-31-2007, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Champ Bailey is the best corner in the nfl today, Deion is the best cover corner of all time... I'll take deion... tackling is a plus, but corners that can cover like he does, don't need to tackle.
when people say bailey can tackle...they dont me WRs....omst of his 80+ tackels he gets not only are more then most CBs get....they come from the stopping the run...so coverage has nothing to do with bailey comming to stop the run
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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further, for whichever one of you actually quoted RETURN statistics, keep in mind this is an argument about CORNERBACKS. return numbers have little to do with a man's ability to cover a receiver. let's try to keep up and not look stupid, ok? i mean, we won't even get into the stupidity of bring up that he played offense or an accomplishment from his college career.
The arguement was actually which one would you rather have and why... Please read the first post before you make false assumptions
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Old 06-01-2007, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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deon was the greatest cb i have ever seen.

also one of the greatest pr of all time.

easy one. neon deon.

oh yea, not a bad baseball player either.
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Old 06-01-2007, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
this is an utterly ridiculous argument. even assuming that they'd played a similar amount of time, they played in VASTLY different eras in terms of guarding the receiver. is it any coincidence that bailey had his worst year the year the league focused on cornerback contact? i wonder if deion was better because, in the era he played in, he could more effectively "mug" a receiver without worrying about getting a call? or gosh, maybe the receiving talent is completely different (not better or worse) in the two eras, making comparison difficult.

regardless, anyone making "enough said" comments has no business taking part in any rational discussion. was deion better? i think so, but to act as if there was nothing about the era he played in that may have helped him look better is ridiculous.

further, for whichever one of you actually quoted RETURN statistics, keep in mind this is an argument about CORNERBACKS. return numbers have little to do with a man's ability to cover a receiver. let's try to keep up and not look stupid, ok? i mean, we won't even get into the stupidity of bring up that he played offense or an accomplishment from his college career.
good points but because we can't determine who was better from diffrent era's i will still have to say deon because he dominated his positon. while bailey is awesome and would love to have him, i can't say that he has the same effect on a game as deon did. rules or not it's still the truth.

it's like saying Babe Ruth doesn't compare with barry bonds, why? beacuse the pitches he saw were 30mph less then the ones that bb sees. good point but with an arguments from diffrent era's you really need to look at the way one impacts a game.


if the thread was about best cb ever, i would have to think the argument would be deon vs. mel blount from the steelers. while i never saw mel play i have heard that he also made the same impact that i saw deon make.
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Old 06-01-2007, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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You have to go with Deion Sanders here. He dominated the NFL on both defense and special teams, while also playing on offense and in the MLB. He would shut down recievers night and day, and Jerry Rice even said he was the toughest CB he ever had to face. If you think Champ is fast, you never saw Primetime.
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Old 06-01-2007, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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id rather have deion because of his ST play in addition to his amazing CB play. i also think he was more of a team leader than champ is. he is a guy that everyone gravitates to because he talks all the crap in the world but he actually backed it up.
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Old 06-01-2007, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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I'd take Champ Bailey. Deion was the best cover corner to play the game, but Champ is really good in coverage too. The difference between the two in terms of coverage ability is nowhere near as large as the difference between the two in run support.

So while Champ Bailey is no Deion Sanders in coverage, he's still really really good at it, and is so much better than Sanders in run support, that I would take Champ Bailey.
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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how does bailey have less of an impact on the game? he literally shut down half the field last season, in spite of having no pass rush and abysmal safety play. he took away 8 touchdowns, iirc, by intercepting the ball inside the 5 yard line. how the hell are you going to tell me that he doesn't have the same impact sanders did if we're speaking purely about play at the cornerback position? if you're talking about overall play, how are you going to hold the fact that shanahan is scared of injuring champ against him?
dude are you serious?? stop throwing facts and abysmal play at me, different era's negate that crap and the falcons certainly were no powerhouse.

So shanahan is afraid of getting bailey injured? i guess that never concerned deon coaches? It didn't matter because he played them and he played them better than anyone i've ever seen.

but, i'm not here for his ST play, Deon set the bar for play at the cb position and until that changes I stick with Neon.
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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how does everyone think deion would do against the wideouts of today?..guys like TO, randy moss, anquan boldin, roy williams...i think he could stick with guys like steve smith and chad johnson...but ive wondered for awhile how he would do against those guys that are so much bigger then him
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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this is an utterly ridiculous argument. even assuming that they'd played a similar amount of time, they played in VASTLY different eras in terms of guarding the receiver. is it any coincidence that bailey had his worst year the year the league focused on cornerback contact? i wonder if deion was better because, in the era he played in, he could more effectively "mug" a receiver without worrying about getting a call? or gosh, maybe the receiving talent is completely different (not better or worse) in the two eras, making comparison difficult.

regardless, anyone making "enough said" comments has no business taking part in any rational discussion. was deion better? i think so, but to act as if there was nothing about the era he played in that may have helped him look better is ridiculous.

further, for whichever one of you actually quoted RETURN statistics, keep in mind this is an argument about CORNERBACKS. return numbers have little to do with a man's ability to cover a receiver. let's try to keep up and not look stupid, ok? i mean, we won't even get into the stupidity of bring up that he played offense or an accomplishment from his college career.
I don't remember who said this, but one NFL receiver once said, Deion is the only person who can play bump and run without touching the receiver. Sanders very rarely made contact with a receiver. I honestly don't see how this is a legitimate comparison. The people who vote for Champ must have been too young to see Sanders in his prime. Teams would go GAMES without throwing it in his direction. Deion Sanders is the greatest cover corner in NFL history, and since a corners number one job is to cover, he is the greatest corner in NFL history. Woodson, Night Train Lane, Mel Blount, and Champ are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that I wouldn't just straight up laugh in the person's face(even though I don't think anyone is close to Deion.)

Plus, He is the only person to ever catch a Brett Favre pass in college and the NFL, both were interceptions. Obviously God allowed him to be the only person who caught his passes in both college and the nfl, so that is automatically a bonus point.
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Last edited by someone447 : 06-01-2007 at 04:49 PM. Reason: added mel blount to my list of corners
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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how does everyone think deion would do against the wideouts of today?..guys like TO, randy moss, anquan boldin, roy williams...i think he could stick with guys like steve smith and chad johnson...but ive wondered for awhile how he would do against those guys that are so much bigger then him
Champ Bailey
Defensive Backs
Ht/Wt: 6-1, 184

Deion Sanders
Defensive Backs
Ht/Wt: 6-1, 198

He is bigger than Bailey...
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Champ Bailey
Defensive Backs
Ht/Wt: 6-1, 184

Deion Sanders
Defensive Backs
Ht/Wt: 6-1, 198

He is bigger than Bailey...
ok and that means what? a players size has nuthin to do with him being physical or not...

and bailey is listed at 6 foot 192...he aint been 184 since college
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Old 06-01-2007, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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I'm a huge homer, but I'll still say Deion. He can cover better than Champ(if thats even possible after last year), althoughobviously hes a terrible tackler. That's okay though, because corner tackling is only reallllly important in a cover 2, and being in a cover 2 is just wasting these guys.
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Old 06-01-2007, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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Bailey had a bad hamstring in '05, and was usually on an island, while they doubled Williams' man.

In '04, while healthy, he was abused by Jerry Porter and Chad Johnson, among others. A lot of people talked about how overrated he was like they talk about DeAngelo Hall now.

In '03, he didn't have that great of a season, and thus the Redskins were comfortable with trading him. In fact, in '03 he wasn't even the third best corner. Most people had Ty Law and Patrick Surtain ahead of him.
we were comfortable trading him because he said he didnt want to be a redskin anymore
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Old 06-01-2007, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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ok and that means what? a players size has nuthin to do with him being physical or not...

and bailey is listed at 6 foot 192...he aint been 184 since college
He faced Michael Irvin, who is no less physical than any of todays receivers. Deion would do just fine against TO.
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